Proximity alerts controversial in EVE Online
Filed under: Sci-fi, EVE Online, Exploits, Game mechanics, PvP, Opinion
EVE Online is a brutal game. There should be no question in a player's mind about this, regardless of whether or not they believe themselves to be completely safe in Empire space. The first podding or two pounds that lesson into your head. Still, for most, life in Empire is relatively safe. But there are two main threats that loom large for carebears these days, particularly for industrial-types. One is JihadSwarm, the GoonSwarm effort to suicide bomb as many Empire miners as possible, which they've drenched in zealotry. The other threat is receiving a wardec from another corp. Once war is declared upon a corporation or alliance, they are fair game to all aggressors and Concord will not intervene to protect the war targets. In effect, nowhere outside of a station can be 100% safe to a war target.
But, what if you could run a program that gives a proximity alert when hostiles enter your system?
Indeed, what if you could receive a voice notification that literally reads off the names of any pilots whose corporation or alliance you've set negative standings towards, or merely any pilot with a low security status?
That program now exists. It's called Bacon, and has been made available to the EVE playerbase by Cesar Malari, a pilot with Gunfleet Logistics -- a member corp of Hydra Alliance.
Of course, Bacon has implications for all players, not just those who hunt or hide in Empire. If it becomes harder for pirates and mercs to even enter the proximity of their targets, and subsequently easier for players on the other end of the spectrum to avoid conflict, then the PvP aspects of the game suffer. Moreover, isk farming and RMT is already a significant problem in EVE Online. Cloaking Ravens ratting in 0.0 are hard enough to catch as it is. With added proximity warnings, it would be even easier for them to survive.
Bacon could potentially throw a wrench in the JihadSwarm machine and make it substantially harder to pin down war targets, which suggests that the program might unbalance the dynamics of the game. On the other hand, the end result is no different from remaining vigilant in local. A player has always been alerted to a threat by looking to see if local spikes. Bacon just adds a second way to be alerted.
It should be noted that the removal of this element of paranoia from the game stands to make EVE into a more casual experience for many players. This is something of a paradox, as many EVE players I've spoken with were drawn to the game by its hardcore nature.
People have been sounding off on the official EVE Online forums, and predictably most players are voicing negative views of Bacon. However, a few players are praising Malari for creating the tool and bringing more attention to the fact that local is used as an intelligence tool -- a game mechanic that many players would like to see removed or drastically changed. But let's look at the facts:
- An initial comment from EVE dev CCP Lingorm last week stated that he found nothing 'wrong' with the program, per se, but that CCP would reserve final judgement on the issue.
- GM Grimmi updated the community on 4/18 of CCP's view of the issue, that there is no apparent violation of the EULA or TOS.
- Cesar Malari has been very open and transparent with the community and CCP Games about the program and what it does. He complied with CCP's request to remove Bacon's ability to log data to a remote (Gunfleet) server, and clarified this both on the forums and on the Bacon site.
- Tools of this nature already exist, and New Eden hasn't imploded just yet.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
4-22-2008 @ 12:25AM
mikhail said...
when folks say eve is hardcore i have to laugh. the only hardcore part of eve is how many gankers will it take to kill one carebear on any given day. eve is hardore when it comes to being on rails in both space flight and combat, no originality anywhere here.
eve is a lord of the flies game, small, niche, nothing more.
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4-22-2008 @ 4:40AM
side said...
Made a few poasts about bacon on the official forums and the negative aspecets of it. But BACON isnt the only program we know of a second used in house by goonfleet but isnt released to the public. Im glad that it was brought forward because of the light it has shed on both the issue of local chat as a inteligence tool and this program. IMHO a third party program using the client side logfile as a realtime tool is a exploit and was completly not the intention of the use of the logfile.
PS. mikhail go troll someplace else mmmkay
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4-22-2008 @ 7:40AM
J. said...
I look forward to adding bacon to my meals, er, deep space exploration and mining capabilities. I think it's great. When you think about the supposed high-tech environment of a future space scenario, aren't tools like this to be expected? And I don't think this detracts from the PvP aspect at all - it takes away the free lunch for some, but the PvP aspect will (should) always be on the intentional gang-versus-gnag aspect of the game.
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4-22-2008 @ 8:12AM
side said...
eve is about dieing at any time not this "oh hai guys i dont wanna pvp 2day come back next week"
im sorry but hello kitty online has closed its beta and u cant sign up anymore but we dont need people like you ruining one of the defining aspects of our game.
5-07-2008 @ 3:08PM
chris potter said...
/signed
there is a serious lack of hi-tech tools for a sci-fi game such as EVE
4-22-2008 @ 8:47AM
J. said...
hey side, you got me down cold. Now why don't you go back to your low-sec gate camp and look for some freighters to gank? I'm sure that makes up the majority of your "defining aspects" in the game.
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4-22-2008 @ 8:50AM
ra said...
Well it doesn't really matter what everyone thinks if CCP has already said it doesn't violate the TOS. If you quit over this can I have your stuff????
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4-22-2008 @ 8:55AM
side said...
No it doesnt violate it but i think you forgot to read the rest of the post about how they reserve they right to change there mind while they review it further. there is no official statement saying that this program is aproved by CCP in any way for that matter.
4-22-2008 @ 8:59AM
Plaet said...
This bacon thing is such a load of tosh it's unbeleivable. All it does is compensate for laziness and incompetance, unlike there's already enough in eve that does that for you. And to 'J', well done, gate camps are in fact a defining aspect of this game, anyone who's played for more than 30 seconds and understands what the game is about will see that.
Anyway don't worry carebears, we'll still find ways to gank you no matter how many third party apps you use.
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4-22-2008 @ 9:32AM
rgoff31 said...
My point is unless CCP change their minds, everyone will just have to deal with it, whine, or leave.
From reading the discussions it seems the Goons and others are already using similar programs, these guys just decided to released it instead of keeping it secret.
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4-22-2008 @ 9:42AM
side said...
CCP Lingorm
C C P
Posted - 2008.04.14 09:09:00 - [13] - Quote
Report
I will find out for you.
My initial reaction is that there is nothing 'wrong' with this per say. As long as you are only reading the logserver logfiles not the raw log server output. As these files can be delayed in writing, or if you want an immediate write then it takes up more cpu and disk IO that is your call.
Please do not take this as CCP approval, but I will go ask the appropriate people and get you a definitive answer.
4-22-2008 @ 9:37AM
WindhamG said...
I think that this bacon business is a little ridiculous, but it could be easily incorporated into local as just an option to have the window flash when a non-blue enters system, just like a new message had popped up, because when i rat i know i get lazy about it and just chat away with corpmates. not to mention local only shows a number on 3 not on two so if your alone there is no warning without keeping that window open.
Bacon may be over the top but it could be incorporated nicely, because my battleship sized vessel should prolly have some peon watching the scanners and telling me when there's bad guys about.
The adding of any third party apps i believe is un-sportsmanlike because not everyone has these apps, or can install them.
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4-22-2008 @ 10:00AM
skalgrim said...
Personally, I'm amazed it's not something implemented in the game. If I owned a spacecraft in a violent place, you can be sure as hell I'd want some kind of early warning system.
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4-22-2008 @ 1:59PM
rgoff31 said...
The Goons have been doing this all along.
Screenshot of the Goon's Beetracker Wiki page
http://i28.tinypic.com/1427n6s.jpg
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4-22-2008 @ 2:30PM
Syme said...
It amazes me that the basis of how "hardcore" a game is rests on how easy it is to be a jerk.
Anyway, it sounds like the gankers have been using these kinds of programs to make ganking easier. Their targets should have the same ability to level the playing field again until CCP makes it impossible to run such a program alongside the game.
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4-22-2008 @ 4:05PM
side said...
Originally by: GM GrimmiGreetings,
The LogServer output is solely intended by CCP as information for developers to help identify and fix bugs. While BACON, and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players, may technically not be in violation of our EULA/TOS, we frown upon the use of this information for any other purpose and we are currently working on changes to prevent this sort of unintended use of information provided by the LogServer.
Regards,
GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master
looks like everyone can come down BACON is gonna get WTF nerfed soon
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4-22-2008 @ 4:27PM
synergy said...
Originally by: GM Grimmi: "and the many similar tools currently used by a large number of players..."
Wait so he is telling everyone that CCP (the game developers) has known about a large number of privileged people using software of this type.
Software like this has likely been used against me but not shared with me as common knowledge of the game? WTF?!?!?!
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4-23-2008 @ 2:40AM
TOliman said...
well, it's hard to take the moral high ground in EO, since it is such a tacky meat-grind. nothing is considered "fair" or in the game mechanics, i.e. , if you can do it, quickly do it before someone does it to you is not endearing to fairness, it's mob tactics.
having BACON do essentially what most players do upon gating, and providing a TTS or auditory signal to wake players auto-gating should be considered 'handy', but is it fair ?
... perhaps its "fair" in some universally misunderstood meaning of the term fair that eve online uses, some kind of bastardised version that lacks any of the original meaning.
is fair an equitable term for all players ? , it sure isn't for those
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4-23-2008 @ 9:16AM
Rod Rye said...
The fact that this information is currently available to a player, albeit an alert one, is a subject of much debate, I personally support it being available to a vigilant player who is aware of their surroundings. Using in this manner allowing a player to perhaps alt-tab and remain just as 'safe' or even using a second account to check for danger nearby without needing to visually 'look' may cross a line, and unfortunately the result may be that the information is no longer sent to the client, removing the automated and the manual options at the same time.
Generally players can work as a team, and have one player do the scouting for the others, this takes away the advantage from working with other people, something a good MMO is built on.
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4-23-2008 @ 10:25AM
Vestras said...
Anything that cuts down on pointless ganking is a good thing. Hell get enough stuff like this in the game and maybe people would play it again!~
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