Player vs. Everything: Could a turn-based MMOG really work?
Filed under: Game mechanics, MMO industry, Opinion, Player vs. Everything
Have you ever noticed how the combat formula for mainstream MMOGs has managed to remain surprisingly stable over the years? There may have been a few small advances: more skills to use (World of Warcraft), counters (Vanguard), twitchier gameplay (Age of Conan), and destructible environments (City of Villains), for example. But even in the games that make use of those newer concepts, the basic formula of the gameplay hasn't changed a whole lot since the days of EverQuest. We run up to the monster we want to kill, pop auto-attack, and start using whatever skills we have to take it down.
It has worked out just fine in most games (I'm obviously a fan of the system), but it's also pretty simplistic, to be honest. Combat tends to occur without a lot of strategy or feedback -- it's usually too fast for a lot of complexity. Even if you had a bunch of interesting skills, stances, and counters, it would be more annoying than fun because using them in real time would require remembering where they all were on your hot bars and clicking all over the place. Given all this, how could you possibly make combat more interesting without making it less fun? Well, I was reading an article the other day where a developer was defending his use of turn-based combat in a modern game, and started wondering how well it would work in an MMOG. If we slowed things down and made a turn-based MMOG, could we have much more complex and interesting fights? Would you even play a turn-based MMO?
Hear me out before you say "No." Many people hate the idea of turn-based games because they see them as slow, tedious, boring, and a step backwards from more "realistic" action games. You could argue that Age of Conan is a step forward while a turn-based MMO would be a step back. But that's not necessarily the case. Our "realistic" action games, where we swing oversized weapons for hours at a time and cut through legions of foes (and never take our armor off) aren't any more realistic than any other game. It's really just a style of gameplay that many players enjoy. It's not like reality -- it's a gameplay representation of reality that focuses on action, adrenaline, and reflexes. The game is all about using the right skills in the few seconds you have the chance to use them to win.
Turn-based combat is just another unrealistic way to represent real actions, but this system focuses on planning, tactics, and resource management much more heavily than action gaming. It's anything but boring. Since response time is slower, designers can instead focus on presenting novel circumstances and forcing players to make decisions about how to react from a much wider selection of possibilities. Look at how many spells your characters have access to in an average turn-based RPG compared to the options you have in an MMOG, for example. Consider that monsters could switch stances, morph, use all kinds of debilitating abilities that you'd have to counter, or try to run away. You could easily provide players with additional NPCs and have a party system of some sort. Combat could easily be made far more complex in a system like this.
As for the argument that it would be slow and tedious, I'm not so sure. Look at a game like Chrono Trigger, a turn-based RPG that almost every RPG fan acknowledges as a fantastic classic. The combat in that game is turn-based, but it doesn't feel slow. Monsters run around on the field, and when you bump into them you're fighting them, right there on the same field. You just pull out your sword and start going back and forth. Spells are used quickly, attacks happen as soon as you select them, and no time is wasted between turns. The only time the action stops is when you stop, otherwise you would hardly notice that it's turn-based. I imagine that a turn-based MMOG would have a very similar feel to it.
There are also other benefits: Imagine being able to go get a cup of coffee mid-fight, or having to leave to pick up the kids, and not having to worry about getting killed by whatever you're fighting. Like a single-player game, you could pause it and walk away. Older players or disabled players who don't have the quick reflexes or manual dexterity required for some games could really benefit from the play style, too. Of course, there are also tons of potential issues and griefing problems with the system, but like anything, a creative designer can work around them.
So why hasn't anyone tried this yet? To my knowledge, the only game that has is Dofus, which uses a combat system similar to the grid-based tactical system popularized by Final Fantasy Tactics, but it's not quite what I'm getting it. We have a long tradition of RPG games with turn-based, menu-driven combat systems that go back all the way to the days of the NES. Companies continue to make and sell games like this to this day on next-generation console game systems (and even PC), and yet no one has bothered to try it in a massively multiplayer setting. Why? Probably because that's not what MMOs "are," and there's no guarantee that players would come play it.
But a very common complaint you hear about MMOGs is how similar they all are. Age of Conan made one tiny tweak to the same DIKU-derived combat system we've had for years, and it was a huge deal. Imagine a game launching with a totally new combat system! You'd have to try it just for the novelty. Just because you're used to a certain game doesn't mean other games are bad. If you've been playing chess and chess variants for years, maybe a game of checkers is exactly what you need (even if you really like chess).
So, how about it? Would you play a turn-based MMO? I think I would, and I think it really wouldn't hurt the genre to try some new ideas like this.
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Cameron Sorden is an avid gamer, blogger, and writer who has been playing a wide variety of online games since the late '90s. Several times per week in Player vs. Everything, he tackles all things MMO-related. If you'd like to reach Cameron with comments or questions, you can e-mail him at cameron.sorden AT weblogsinc.com. |


















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
GRT said on 4:03PM 5-21-2008
Dofus is a turn-based mmo
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GRT said on 4:06PM 5-21-2008
*oops* OK, reading comprehension -10 for me. I see you mentioned Dofus.
Cannonball said on 8:26PM 7-22-2008
Hey guys, I like this idea and anyone else that wants to see this in action should go to fileplanet right now and get in on the Atlantica Online closed beta. It is actually a pretty interesting turn based MMO. I didn't think it was great at first, but once I sped up the combat speed and turned up the graphics, it got a lot better. Give it a few levels before you make an opinion, once you recruit several mercenaries to your party and start to level them up it gets really good. http://atlantica.ndoorsgames.com
brandon said on 4:10PM 5-21-2008
I've been wanting a Chrono Trigger MMO-like game for years. WoW and EQ are too fast paced for me. FF, CT, EarthBound, these games have always been just the right speed where I can plan an attack and execute it. And I always hated in MMOs when other players would jump around and circle while meleeing. I like the stand still and fight formula the NPCs and turn-based combat systems used. I'd buy a turn-based MMO in a heartbeat. Maybe a space-based one?
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Juxe said on 4:22PM 5-21-2008
you forgot Concerto Gate that's coming out, it's F2P and developed by games campus
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Cameron Sorden said on 9:42AM 5-22-2008
There's also another F2P game on the horizon that has a turn-based combat engine (I forget which)... but what I'd really like to see is a commercial AAA game try it. F2P games are fine, but they're usually not made for a western audience (grind-heavy) and generally have some quality issues.
Arturis said on 4:51PM 5-21-2008
Technically, Final Fantasy XI uses a turn based combat engine (the basis for Final Fantasy XII's Gambit driven one) though they do a decent job of making it feel more real time and free flowing.
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Cameron Sorden said on 9:42AM 5-22-2008
Yeah, but I'm actually not a big fan of either FFXII's or FFXI's game engines. While technically turn-based, they've made it so MMO-like that it really isn't any more. I mean, WoW is technically turn-based too. You just take your turns concurrently. True turn-based gameplay would literally be a situation where they wait to make their move until you make your next one.
rrenna said on 12:39AM 5-22-2008
One of the first MMOs ever, "The Realm" worked this way, it was quite a unique an fun experience
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Tialla said on 7:10AM 5-22-2008
Technically, Toontown Online, while made for younger audiences, is /also/ a turn-based game, with a list of up to six possible attacks (ranging in level), and a few items (SOSes, etc) that can be used.
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Cameron Sorden said on 9:42AM 5-22-2008
Interesting... I didn't realize Toontown had turn-based combat. Does it work well?
Tialla said on 12:06AM 5-23-2008
It's not a bad system, although very simplistic (trying to cater to its audience). You have a 20 second timer per round--and 7 different attack types. Each attack also has 7 levels--from the weakest (level 1), to the strongest (level 7). You choose an attack--and all other teammates' attacks are also shown as the choices are made. Once the 20 seconds runs out, or all teammates attacks are chosen, the turn plays out.
It has some interesting features to it--with bonuses being given to matching attacks (if two people choose to use a 'Throw' attack, both attacks use the same attack roll to determine a hit or miss. If the attacks hit--if one normally would do 50 damage, and the other 30...instead of 80 damage, the attacks would do, together, 88 damage. (Or 96--I forget the exact bonus--it's been a little while!))
It makes a decent game system, especially for younger players, but actually does have a bit of strategy to it, enough that even older players can (at least for a little while) find it interesting.
Hoovehearted said on 12:38PM 5-22-2008
There are two major kinds of turn based combat systems - the Final fantasy one, where there's a line of pc's, and a line of npcs, and you swap turns, then there's the more fallout type - where there's a grid to move around and concepts like line-of-sight apply.
I'd love to see the new fallout mmo they are talking about use the latter (obviously), but maybe both ideas bring up the new concept of 'instanced combat' - where the toon and nearby party members are on their own battlefield - spawned at the first offensive action taken by the player and/or mob.
could be interesting...
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Kaoy said on 8:06AM 6-22-2008
http://www.mythwaronline.com/
Here's another turn based game, with skills that grow more powerful with use(uhg... just remebered spending 25+ hours one week leveling death for when I ran into King monsters... a personal desecion that is in no way nessacary). The downside to that though is that, as a mage, I focused on Fire, and it was great through IV or V, but once it leveled, it's power went up alot, but its mana cost more than doubled. When that happens, only thing a mage can do is go farm in a low area till it reaches at least level 3, since other wise any group they are in will have terrible damage.
It is kinda intresting getting poisoned or powered down by monsters though. There are even a few isolated ones that can force a player out of combat, ala FFX Stone/Break and one boss I know of that, when down to 50% HP, would use it's next turn to cast a low level, but unresistable form of Death on every character, thus setting a timer to finish the fight in 9 rounds or die. And the more people in the party, the more monsters you encounter, so thats a nice touch. The class, Borgs, could do with a buff, since as a tank in a game when there is no lure abblity, they really can't do much in a party. They can steal health to heal everyone a little bit, but nowhere near enough to make them more important than a Human for debuffing(mmm... Poison spec human... Uber Sex-ay and hell in PvP) or a Centuar for massive healing. Been awhile since I played though, so they may have made up for some of those features.
It also has some intresting fetures like pets, tresure hunting(in which you buy a map from an NPC and them go to the location printed on the map to find the tresure), a fate system, which sort of acts like a buff when you have a party member that you have a high relation to(wasn't in effect when I played), and a couple more nice touches. It is a grind though, but it's alot of fun. It's one of those game that you absolutley love until you just can't stand playing it anymore. I actually have a small urge to download and see what's changed in the last 2 years.
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