Massively^™

"To save the village, it was necessary to destroy the village..."

If Linden Lab keeps caving to its critics like this, sooner or later, Second Life WILL be shut down no matter WHAT they do. Someone at LL needs to grow a backbone, and say, "The line must be drawn HERE! This far, NO farther!"

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Exactly Erbo. If one starts retreating, there is no end until their back is up against the wall. Even more, retreating like this is a confirmation of guilt.
After all, Lindens could set the event as they set the whole world: "we provide the grid/space but residents are responsible for what they create." And it was hardly a problem to divide the celebration space in PG and mature areas. Each to its own. With a polite, friendly and sane notice, with some volunteers and guides we could keep child avies off the mature areas. And everything would be fine. It would be rough maybe, but nothing that Lindens WITH the residents couldn't fight with. This way, Lindens ALONE have to face the discrimination and ugly customer treatment.

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Tateru, once again, you are hysterically and wildly mis-stating how the political process in the US works, and totally exaggerating the significance of Mark Kirk and implying that congress shouldn't have the right to regulate virtual worlds.

Sorry, but elected representatives in democratic societies *do* take precedence over mobs of the politically-correct and extremist in viewpoint such as you pull together on your blog. We didn't elect you, and frankly, I will take even an ill-informed elected official that can be dealt with by lobbying or informing than those who rule the roost on the blogosphere and decide what "the Community" thinks and what should prevail on social media.

There's this belief that "ageplay" should enjoy endless tolerance under any notion of civil liberties. But law is tightening up on this even in the First Amendment US precisely because the linkage that has been found between tolerance of simulation of child pornography and the real thing. You may find this preposterous; others outside the Magic Circle do not.

You're also rewriting SL history here again. LL has always had a heavy hand on the birthday celebration; LL has always made it an official state occasion and selected whom it wanted to represent. All that happened is that the FIC, which usually gets selected and is in happy condominium with the Lab has now suddenly found itself not quite on the same page and not reading the Hive Mind with the same accuracy and alacrity that it used to -- that's all.

The family-friendly vote isn't something that one has to "grease," Tateru. It's a real force that has real issues and they are *legitimate* issues and politicans elected by them as a majority in some states have to serve these interests. That's how normal democratic politics work, when you aren't trying to read or control Hive Mind.

I'm glad that the media and congress NOT controlled by the Lab -- and there's been an awful lot of THAT as you know full well -- is also taking an inquiring and critical approach to virtual worlds that do have a powerful effect on society. Or did you think only congressmen in the Lab's pocket, that set up softball hearings for them, and only their lapdog press should get to cover these controversial issues they way you wish?

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Even the above precautions are silly and wrong. If you "keep the child avies off the mature areas", you are tacitly admitting that they may be actual children. This is not the truth. Everyone here..is..first and foremost, an avatar. A drawing. A walking cartoon. The grid is limited to adults over the age of 18. It does not matter what type of body parts they are wearing at a given moment. This needs to be pounded into the brains of anyone who says any differently.

Appeasement will not work with these people, as the article above clearly delineates...they will introduce bills and laws over and over and over..regardless of their truth or lack thereof, in order to promulgate their lies and distortions. They have no moral standard whatsoever, and do not care who or how many they hurt in the process of reaching their goals, which is purely the lining of their own pockets with as much money as possible. They must be fought with the truth...spoken over and over again whenever their lies are disseminated.

There are somewhat over 13 million residents or former residents now...all of whom have a better idea of what "virtual" means than that Kirk wingnut will ever have. Somebody must have something on him. These guys are never clean. Get that information to the media. Fight fire with fire. Just keep telling the world the truth. Children are not allowed. Any children found are removed. If he knows of any children on the grid, and is not telling so they can be removed, he is in violation of US law and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Serve him with subpoenas, cease and desist orders, defamation of character suits, everything in the legal arsenal possible. Make it unprofitable to continue to lie and slander your company. Do you think Disney would let some minor league politician say things like that about them? Same with any so called "news gathering" organization. Don't cower in your holes like gophers. Attack those who want to profit from fear and lies. Make it unprofitable to continue to do so. Force them back to attacking more amorphous areas..like the devil..you know..things that can't really fight back. Attack attack attack. Make your lawyers work for their retainers.

As far as the birthday celebration goes. An easy way out is to stop referring to the groups you are worried about as child groups, as that is a clear misnomer, since there are no children involved. Call them groups with child-like avatars. First thing we can do to help LL is to stop calling them children. This confuses the great masses...to call them children in one sentence and say no children are allowed in the next. A new euphemism is needed to keep those with extremely low IQ's (like politicians) from getting confused. I throw open the floor for ideas. The euphemism needs to be short..clearly understood..yet clearly not confusable with a real child.

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And as for Prokofy's rant, anyone in SL for longer than a week or so knows of the resident ditto-head. It's ability to ignore the simple concept that virtual is not real is legendary. It actually think's child looking avatars are children. Poor old Prok....but..a great indication that you are right comes when Prok weighs in against you. Personally, I've never had the problem before..but I welcome it now. Prok will only be happy in a world where everyone is Prok, because everyone else is a commie pinko terrorist. Must have looked under it's bed this morning and found the commie menace still there.....

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..also Prok..no one here...or even at LL..is talking about "ageplay" in the context that you mean it...with a sexual connotation. That was settled quite some time ago as I recall, was ruled as at best..against TOS if not downright illegal in many jurisdictions, and banned outright from existing in any shape or form. Groups involved in that would not have been banned from the party..but tossed from the grid. IF it exists now it exists in the same way it exists in RL. Underground, hidden, covert. Not putting together public displays for birthday parties...

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Well, one cannot help it.... when some see or think about a kid they instantly think about sex. Dirty bastards!

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The very sad truth Prok, is government is not the great almighty force of justice and truth you so dearly believe it is. From the top on down to your local mayor politics is rife with corruption. Not just on once side or the other, on all sides. I don't believe any of these people should be elected to office. In fact the real problem is that the people who should be running the country, don't because they don't want to take a pay cut. They already run successful corporations.

Also your view that government does not bow down to the politically correct mob is absurd. How many laws do we have on the books against things like school bullies? Absurd panels on things like steroid abuse in baseball or global warming, I mean cooling, I mean umm global climate change... I have said it before and I will say it again, you have a narrow view of life my friend.

Now what I find hilarious here is a member of our government, trying to control an adult video game. I say adult because there aren't supposed to be any children on the main grid. If that's the case, why are they concerned about the children? I'm just sayin..

Kirk is just a showboat.. He's prepping himself to move up in the republican party by trying to say and do the right things. I, however, think he has no teeth. Sure he's got a loud bark, but ain't no one askeered of him yet. That may change, but for now he's all talk.

The ironic part here is that Prok is essentially right, but for the wrong reasons. He assumes that there are kids playing child avatars. That has never been proven to be the case, at least not anywhere I've seen. The problem isn't the child avatars, it's the children in adult avatars. Children who gain access through free accounts, obtained with an easily created paypal account for "age verification".

You want to keep kids out? To keep them safe? Require a credit card. And at least 1 payment. Heck, I think if it's good enough for the porn industry, it would be good enough for second life. Until they provide such information, and whatever other hoops the labs wish to make them jump through. Restrict the avatars to PG-Only sims.. Employ a volunteer resident police force to report and monitor the pg sims to ensure content is kept clean. I mean we have to protect the illegal kids in second life.

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Yes..by all means keep kids out in the real world..where they are safe, and off of SL...which is full of pervs who can harm them by...hmmm, wait...how is it they can be harmed here again? Isn't this all...fake? Sometimes know as "virtual"?

Couldn't resist that..but..it's not the argument. I am all in favor of making it as hard for children to access SL as it is for a Chinese citizen to find an article on Tienanmen square...but..nothing can ever be 100% sure. Even a death penalty if caught doesn't prevent anything 100%.

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You know, if I were in charge of LL, I would MUCH more worried about adults posing as kids on the Teen Grid, than I would about adults posing as kids on the Adult Grid. Buy maybe that's just me.

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Unfortunately no matter how enlightened and laissez-faire we might be with our attitudes, those less predisposed to being easy going about stuff often have massive political clout.

A goodly proportion of folk in most countries believe the government should protect morality and step into the bedroom and lay down the law, rather than staying out of people's personal life choices. When folk such as this band together, they present a particularly powerful lobbying group which the law and governments can't ignore. Logic and facts don't help too much when this happens.

Jack Thompson is a case in point - a fellow backed by such "child protection groups" right up to the point where he was barred by the Florida court, guilty on 27 out of 31 counts of perverting the course of justice and criminal contempt of court proceedings. ( See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney) ) This is after causing millions in court fee losses by rap labels, game developers, and other such folk. The truth is less of a concern to such groups than exercising their moral imperative.

In Mister Thompsons closing statements upon being barred from court action he explained his methods by quoting Jesus thus: 'If any one of you should cause one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better that a millstone be tied around your neck and that you be cast in the uttermost depths of the sea.' His logic was that the evils done in the protection of children are less than the evil of not protecting them.

When faced with huge, well funded lobby groups which believe in these principles even governments get scared. Your elected representatives certainly quake in fear of getting on their wrong side, after all their jobs are at stake. So they also have the tacit support of anyone in politics who wants to continue to be so.

Any sane company would stay as far out of their line of sight as possible. Getting in a fight with a large moral group is costly for a company, if not a death sentence. Like the internets pipes, SL is chock full with pervs as we all know. :P Certainly LL has popped their head up on the block for the chopping and are eager to look as moral and upstanding as they possibly can right now. If they don't, it's their funeral.

Sad but true... well that's my two cents anyways.

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LL had another easy choice: distance themselves from the SLB5 and withdraw their sponsorship. I am quite certain that a few sims could have been volunteered by private owners or by corps that do not run LL's risks and that could use the publicity (which would be mostly positive, at least inside SL). Instead, LL is digging itself even deeper into the role of owners of SL as opposed to simple platform providers.

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Pavig, I quite understand what you are saying..and agree...my point is only...they are going to be gone after anyway. The Thompsons, Kirks, and others of their ilk of the world will not stop just because you try and be reasonable now. They will just get you later. Remember, they are not really out to help any children, just line their pockets...and the only way they can do that is not to win too easily. LL needs to stand up now..while the law is still a bit amorphous..and shout out the truth. There are no children in world that are known. There is a strict, McCarthyesqe program of removing those that are even accused of being underage. Non adults in SL are not now, and will not be, tolerated. Everyone in SL is an adult to the best of LL's abilty to verify..taking into account the local laws and jurisdictions of all participating residents.

The lawyers are on the payroll now..they must strike at this now, get it all clarified that adult is adult and virtual is not real, while most of the country does not care. It won't be any easier once the wingnuts get their cart rolling and keep repeating the lies and slanders that they are now over and over. You have to remember..any traction they have is based on people not understanding that in a virtual world..if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it almost certainly isn't a duck.

If LL keeps saying over and over..there are no children here that we know of...there are no children here that we know of, we will be more than happy to remove any that you know of, we are not hiding anything..if you know of something, show us..then this can be nipped in the bud. They don't need to overturn pornography laws...they are not breaking any now. The rules are hard and fast about it, and people who break them are punished, and even reported if that breaking also has broken real world laws. In other words..they act just the same as a real world court against real world offenders. People now are being told it's lawless and children are crawling all over the place. Tell them it's not true. Call those who say otherwise liars to their faces. Tell them to put up or shut up. The only way to get them to crawl back under their rocks is to shine the light of truth on them.

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Prokofy, everyone who does not share your opinion is "extremist". You are so boring and predictable.

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Child avatars in mature sims/regions or places? For me it doesn't really matter that those are adults behind the child avatars, it is just wrong with a capital W. Anyone who thinks even for a moment that being an adult pretending to be a child around mature content is a good idea needs to re-examine; and mature sims can have inappropriate content in unexpected places. For me this is not about the avatars "maybe" being children, it's not about politics, and it's not about consenting adults having a right to express themselves. Some things are ALWAYS wrong. Without exception. And placing any child, real/imagined/portrayed or otherwise in a situation where that child could be perceived as being exposed to inappropriate content is one of the worst things that could happen.

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The thing that mystifies me the most about this is the denial of content by child avatar creators but the allowance of child avatars at the event. We have some wonderful artists and content creators who are part of the child avatar community! The wingnuts are not going to look at pix of child avatars attending SL5B on flickr or whatever and go "well it is okay, they weren't allowed to create anything". How does this make any sense at all?

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Cincia, if it is politics, then how about freedom of expression? If it is about politics, then how about discriminating some groups of users is a step towards fascism? And how about you not placing your own (dis)likes as common?

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I vote that the lindens make a grid for adults only. hmm...

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