Ask a WAR Beta Tester: Laying the groundwork
Filed under: Betas, Fantasy, New titles, Warhammer Online
Last week we turned to you, the Massively community, for questions about Warhammer Online. We've been in the Beta for a while, and we've got lots of information about the game just stewing in our brains. Hopefully features like Massively Speaking #19 and our State of the Game piece have conveyed some of the ways we're thinking about the game. But your questions are really what we want to get answered. Today we're going to take a first crack at what was asked last week. We're going to take care of some of the most basic questions, clarifying things like server balance, armor differentiation, and whether the game is any fun at all for non-Warhammer IP fans. We're betting that these answers will prompt even more questions, and that's good! Every time we put up an "Ask a WAR Beta Tester" article, we want you to throw us more questions in the comments. Click on below the cut to read our answers, and to give us even more questions!
smoke2000 asked "How bad can imbalance between order/destruction population be for a server? Could players of the least populated side get bored or irritated to the point they'd leave the server for another one?"
I won't lie. In Beta, the servers have been very Destruction-heavy. That said, as more and more people have entered the Beta Order has gained more and more players. It's this blogger's belief that the majority of players are going to want to play the 'heroic' Order races – just look at launch World of Warcraft's tendency to side heavily with Alliance over Horde. Additionally, don't discount the tendency for players to pick the human race over others – the human player race is invariably the most popular when it is available.
Justin asked "One thing that's important to me in an MMO is a feeling of progression visible on the character. Does Warhammer look and feel more progressed as you level? Can you tell the difference between a level 5 and level 45 by how they look?"
Very much so! Starting armor is fairly utilitarian, but as you gain in power there's a very clear change from the basics to more elaborate gear. You'll even be able to tell the difference between a level 1 and a level 10 character by their gear – the level 10 will look like sort of a 'variation on the theme' begun with the level 1 armor. By the time you're talking about the difference between a level 5 and a level 40 character, there's going to be a world of difference in your gear. Want something more concrete? Here's a level 1 character vs. a level 31 character:
There is definitely a lot of variation between areas, and the game is just as stylized as you'd expect from the Warhammer IP in general. As many people have been quick to point out over the course of WAR's development, World of Warcraft is something of an homage to Games Workshop's venerable intellectual property. What's interesting is that this blogger has found the game to look much better in motion than in screenshots. Really seeing the world come to life before your eyes has a profound effect on the art design's believability.
Generally speaking, each area of the game has a specific theme. It's ultimately going to be up to you as a player to determine whether the themes in a given zone are to your liking. For example, the Greenskin starting area is almost entirely brown, mud, dirt, and stone. There are very few bright colors, unlike the starting area for the High Elves. That zone features a number of deep blues, marble whites, and (of course) the vivid purples of Dark Elf opponents.
Adriatic asked "I know this game is a pvp-centric one, but is there enough pve content to keep pve minded players entertained such as anything akin to instances or dungeons? Is there any pve content after you hit the max level or is it all PvP?
We partially addressed this issue back in the Massively Goes to WAR series, in a post all about this subject at the endgame. As far as leveling, there's a ton of PVE content. In fact, the amount of PVE content can actually be a little overwhelming. Thanks to the Tome of Knowledge, though, there will be lots of hand-holding opportunities to get you through the content. There are tons of dungeons, several instances even below max-level, and even the high-end PvP content actually opens up opportunities for PvE players in the form of Public Quests!
coprolit asked "Where is the focus in terms of gearing up and levelling? Is the stat-wise progression something that comes almost automatically, merely as a side-effect from playing (play for fun with progression as reward)? Or do you quest, PvP and so on to 'grind' power to participate in a meaningful way in RvR battles (progress to play)? Or are play and progression seamlessly integrated?
Play and progression are pretty well seamlessly integrated. Obviously gear plays a big part in every encounter, be it PvE or PvP, but even level isn't that important when it comes to the game's scenarios. You're level-adjusted to meet the minimum expectation for each instanced experience. By participating in the quests for your zone, doing kill collectors, taking part in the public quests, and generally playing the game to its fullest, you should be sufficiently geared for pretty much everything that comes at you. There really isn't, as far as this blogger has seen, a need for any grinding.
Yaisha asked "From the screenshots I have seen it looks like members of the same race/class look very similar. Putting things you get in the game like armor and the trophys aside, How many types of faces/ hairstyles/etc. do you get at character creation. Also, what other types of things are available at character creation such maybe things like height?"
Essentially all of Warhammer's character customization comes from gear. Character creation is fairly limited - I'd put customizable elements at just a little more varied than what World of Warcraft offers. Unlike WoW, though, there's quite a lot of good looking gear at all levels. This is one element that WAR definitely followed through with; much of their concept art has been translated directly into in-game items at high fidelity. Add on to that the trophies and the possibility for unique-looking gear from Public Quests, and you've got a lot of gear variation between characters.
Stefson asked "The last couple of days i've been viewing lost of beta videos, and one thing that seems common during big RvR battles is the lag. Do you think this will get fixed before launch?"
I can honestly state that I've never had lag problems playing Scenario RvR. I've had very little experience in open world PvP.
That's it for this week ... be sure to toss us some more questions in the comments below, and look forward to more questions answered as the week rolls on!
Spellborn's American launch pushed back, closed beta starts the 27th
Rumors of The Agency's death have been exaggerated
EverQuest II: The Shadow Odyssey Launches!
Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria launches!
Warhammer combat and careers patches pushed back
Meet the Team: Krystalle Voecks
Know Your LotRO Lore: The Watcher in the Water
Massively's exclusive pre-launch Moria interview with Jeffrey Steefel
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
8-25-2008 @ 3:23PM
Hades said...
I don't know if you guys are interested, but we wrote a quick Preview Weekend Review here ( http://www.lotd.org/73.html )
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8-25-2008 @ 3:26PM
ScytheNoire said...
Agree with the answers. Although I found that there is more customization at creation than you have in WoW.
Also, as for the look, it looks like Warhammer. If you've seen the table-top game, the role-playing game, the artwork, it looks like that.
Not Games Workshop fault Blizzard "borrowed" their game.
Personally, haven't had much lag in game, especially not in Scenarios. But even when they launched the servers for this weekend and there were hundreds in the starting zones, it was still smooth and quests were completable. Saying a lot considering most other games you'd never be able to complete those type of kill quests with a hundred in the zone.
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8-25-2008 @ 3:34PM
SearingLight said...
I've got a quick question on armor sets.
Now, I have loved the idea of sets since their inclusion in Diablo 2, yet I've always hated their recent implementation in MMOs (namely WoW) as seemingly max-level-exclusive pieces.
So, here's my question(s): During numerous interviews, and some of the production podcasts, if I remember, Jeff Hickman has established that there's around 20 different armor sets to work through in the game, for which I'm assuming that applies to each class, but I could be wrong. First off, is this number fairly accurate? And secondly, are armor sets RvR-exclusive and/or usable at max-level only?
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8-25-2008 @ 3:40PM
Brian! said...
I never got a complete armorset, but I did find pieces of them in the Public Quests, at very early levels. So there are sets other than just at the end of the game.
8-25-2008 @ 8:24PM
Steech said...
I came across a set armor piece at level 7 from a public quest drop
8-25-2008 @ 3:39PM
Brian! said...
I have to disagree with you in your assumption that more people will choose Order upon release. This is based on these facts:
#1: Mythic has been marketing WAR a lot. Then the press gets involved covering it. For whatever reason, Chaos seems to get more coverage. Even the preorder CE box seems to scream Chaos. (as a comparison, WoW's marketing was predominately Alliance by a margin at launch)
#2: The buzz about WAR is that it is a PvP game. I would argue that WAR is more, but for the sake of this, that is what people say. Because WAR is similar to WoW, older veteran WoW players will remember being dominated by Horde in the battlegrounds. On most servers, for quite a long time, if you wanted to win PvP you played Horde. That trained millions of players to think that way. Thus, in a PvP game... destruction does feel like the winning side regardless of actual facts.
#3: Humans? Yea. Oddly enough a large percentage of players prefer to play humans over other races. Both sides have humans. And, I would go so far as to say that the Destruction humans are a bit cooler looking than the Order. So people playing a human are not likely to influence one way or another.
#4: Speaking of the cool factor. Destruction is cool. Order looks good too, but almost everywhere destruction seems to just have a bit more "pizazz". A IronBreaker next to a Black Orc in T2 gear... yea the BO just looks great. That is going to be very attractive.
#5: WAR gives a lot of players something to try that is new, that is not WoW. So, if I am an alliance WoW player looking for something new, well, I might just roll destruction for a change. Otherwise, why not just stick to my same old alliance toon?
#6: This one drives me nuts. Some people argue that most players want to play the "good guys". Can you then, explain to me, why Grand Theft Auto is such a hit? People LOVE playing a thug. Spore is about to prove that people love playing a microbe too. Look, people play what is fun. There is no doubt that Destruction is fun. The classes look great, the PvE stories are also great. I thought they were more clever than Order too.
#7: Just a guess... I think Mythic loves Destruction. Sure, they like their Order... but they LOVE Destruction. Even their online videos have more shots of Destruction characters overall from what I have noticed.
Closed beta, Destruction had more population. Preview weekend, Destruction had more population. Send me an email, I will be happy to bet you that both open beta and release will have more destruction. We will settle 2 weeks after release. How about the winner pays three month's of playing time for the looser. I am totally game if you are Michael!
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8-25-2008 @ 3:41PM
Brian! said...
Oh, forgot to mention. Even YOU used a screen shot of a greenskin before/after to show armor. Whatever the reason, collectively Destruction gets far more press than Order.
Please take the bet!
8-25-2008 @ 5:13PM
Pirate Penguin said...
You make a lot of good points, but I still believe that the mass's tendency to want to play the 'good guys' will, at the very least, balance things out. In my opinion the beta populations mean very little, as people are more likely to experiment and try out all the new and weird stuff before settling on what they actually want to play for the long haul.
In fact, just looking at the six different factions I believe that Order will have one of the highest overall populations (even with only 3 to chaos's 4 classes I think it might win out overall). Blowing things up and lighting things on fire is always popular, and the Bright Wizard will be the best at it (or at least, the most obvious). Warrior priests scream 'paladin', and we all know how popular they were in WoW (and a LOT of ex-WoW players will be playing WAR). Witch hunters just sound cool, and seem to be one of the most rogue-like classes. They also seem to already be getting a reputation for being very powerful on the boards.
If I had to guess which faction would come in second place in population, it would be chaos. 4 classes, and once again many of them human-like. These classes also comprise some of the most fundamental mmo components, such as an extremely badass looking tank (chosen), melee dps (marauder), and healer (zealot).
Third place I would put as the high elves, due to having 4 classes which include a tank, a class named
archmage' (regardless of what it actually does), a super bow and arrow ranger kinda class, and a kitty cat pet class, all of which are good looking. Honestly, I could even see this race as being first or second place in population.
Fourth I would give to the greenskins. There are only 3 classes, but the tank class and a pet class should make them pretty popular.
For fifth place I am going to guess dark elves. Only three classes, and some of them are sort of unique and new which tends to confuse the masses. People looking for a 'wow paladin like' experience will likely flock to the warrior priest over the DoK. Witch elves may be unpopular because there are a lot of dudes (including me) who are uncomfortable playing female toons in these games. Sorceress should be decently popular, but I still think the bright wizard will take most of the 'want spell damage!' people because of it's flamboyant fiery nature.
Last I'd give to the dwarves, but not because I don't think they will be cool or effective, but because women hate being dwarves and they are generally not the most popular race around in other games.
8-26-2008 @ 9:14AM
Larry-Steve said...
Grr...
WoW PvP came from DAoC RvR.
DAoC was Mythic's first MMO before they began developing WAR.
Therefore...
WAR RvR predates WoW PvP.
And...
WAR is spiritually DAoC 2.
WAR = PvP
WoW = PvE
They've also stated that you can avoid PvE entirely in the leveling up process of the game, making your ENTIRE experience of leveling RvR based. That's something WoW cannot compare to.
As far as who will pick what and which side will have more players come release, both arguments have susbstanance. IRONICALLY ENOUGH, WOW ISN'T THE ONLY MMO ON THE MARKET. It may have the largest playerbase, but there are many other non-WoW MMO players who will be leaving other MMO's to play WAR. That being said, using WoW's release details to parallel what WAR will and will not be is bias.
People who like being the "good guy", whatever that means, 'might' go to Order, or they might not. People who like to kill those players, 'might' go to Destruction. There's also an interesting sigma created by WoW that will ironically screw with many of the first time MMO'ers coming from WoW to try a new MMO.
In WoW, Horde was better PvP in a majority sense. This "might" suggest, Destruction will have better PvP players in WAR. This is what all of us who look for the lower population side like to hear because that means we're playing as Order for more players to kill. :)
8-25-2008 @ 3:46PM
Leshrac said...
People don't like to play the good guys as much as they like to play the "pretty races". Lets face it; Horde races are just downright ugly. The Blood Elfs came too late for anyone on the Alliance side to drop allegiance and roll Horde.
Also, WAR will not attract as many females as WoW did simply because of the PVP undertones. A lot of females rolled Alliance because they wanted to play Night Elfs. And WoW was very accessible and newbie friendly.
My point is; Des will be the higher pop race at launch and moving forward.
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8-25-2008 @ 4:15PM
possum said...
A humerous reply from one of my questions on why the female dark elves were so fugly resulted in this answer...."if you were always mad you'd be ugly too!"
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8-25-2008 @ 4:31PM
danarchy said...
The population issue has gotten allot of discussion on the "unofficial" beta boards. I have been in the last 3 phases of beta and destruction has always maintained at least a 150% population over order. Discussing this amongst my friends have brought out some very curious facts:
1) order has the two most powerful classes in pvp and pve runey's and bright wizards. You can't kill a runey past lvl 30 without allot of help! And a dot specc'd bright wizard pretty much melts anyone that doesn't have a dedicated healer on them. Yet even with these imbalances people are choosing destruction for the pure flavor of it. And the simple fact of the matter is destruction looks so much COOLER than order, put a black orc or chosen next to a dwarf or high elf tank and tell me who looks better....
2) Were seeing the same exact thing happen to WaR that happened when DAoC came out. People started chatting about how many more alb's there were than other classes on message boards like this, this in turn drove new players coming to the game to roll up albs making the problem far, far worse. No one wants to start at a disadvantage.
3) Due to the imbalance still existing in the last preview weekend, and one can assume in the open beta it will continue, many people trying the game out are finding that the scenarios are the only chance they have at a fair fight if they play order. Alternatively if they go destro they get to wait ALLOT longer to get into the bg's and finding a living target in open rvr to get a shot off on is impossible. This again is totally reminiscent of dark ages early days when one sorcerer could keep a entire enemy force stunned and easy pickins. You would end up with about 60 albs sitting just out of aggro of the gate guards from the midguard or hibernian realms just hoping a noob would accidentally go out into bow shot. It wasn't fun for anyone.
So in closing, since my fingers now hurt, the population issue is one of the biggest problems they have to deal with right now. In the end they will either have to "redress" some of the order classes to make them more appealing or institute some system that reduces the amount of gain depending on the number of allied players in any given rvr area.
Last night just goofing off I went out to do a little rvr and found no less than 3 groups (one was a guild) of destro standing just out of range at the gates to er....whatever landing. After getting over the flashbacks I started to notice allot of the order players that were there either just stood there and watched, or got baited out and massacred.
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8-25-2008 @ 6:02PM
Orycle said...
They should not just cap server population but also cap SIDE population. So if the cap has been reached for one faction's side then allow people to create characters on that server for the other faction only.
8-25-2008 @ 4:51PM
ermansup said...
The question was not so much as to which side will be more populated in the end but rather what the consequences of if it might be. If PvP engagements will predominantly be decided by the amount of players per side no is going to be having any fun.
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8-25-2008 @ 10:17PM
my2cents said...
Yeah, I was going to leave the same comment. Not to be rude, but you never answered smoke2000's question Michael. =P
What actual effects have you noticed population imbalance between factions to have? Does a population imbalance mean the smaller faction has little chance of success? Or is there anything that helps offset the imbalance?
8-25-2008 @ 5:51PM
oMonarca said...
Don't know about you, but I think the Bright Wizard looks bad-ass!
BTW, usually the popular faction gets a larger percentage of socially immature players, so Order can actually be where the cool players will stick to.
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8-25-2008 @ 10:51PM
Samora said...
I agree, but generally there is a tendency of the young players to go play the good side, such as WoW most 18 and below players play alliance rather than horde.
8-25-2008 @ 8:53PM
Ed said...
Have you guys checked out the map for road-to-war.com? This is the closest thing to an survey of the people interested in WAR.
Here's my take on it. Almost everything I have read from folks familiar with the Warhammer IP indicates they look forward to playing destruction. The map from road-to-war.com shows an obvious skew for destruction.
I really believe Order is going to be the underdog realm, which means I will probably play Order or try and convince my friends to anyway.
The one thing that concerns me though is how much rewards dominating realms get. Making the strong stronger, could be a self defeating when addressing balance issues. I understand there should be rewards for controlling the RvR zones, but I think they should be diminishing to some point. Running a large empire/government lends itself to inefficieny and corruption.
Overall, 'this poster' ;-) loved the trial weekend and shed a small tear when a wall of tanks held their ground at the broken keep door for what seemed like 10-15 minutes. God bless Mythic for putting clipping in!
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8-25-2008 @ 9:05PM
Flugel said...
Stefson asked "The last couple of days i've been viewing lost of beta videos, and one thing that seems common during big RvR battles is the lag. Do you think this will get fixed before launch?"
You forgot to mention that it's simply fact, a game like WAR + RvR (lots of people) + recording with FRAPs will = some bad FPS, since it pretty much cuts it in half.
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8-25-2008 @ 11:50PM
ScytheNoire said...
Brian is so wrong. He obviously also doesn't know his history.
I've talked to at least five people who aren't in the Beta and interested in WAR, most are more casual, all interested in Order, some because their girlfriends wouldn't want to play Destruction.
Empire will by far be the most popular, and Order will be at least even with Destruction in three months, if not more popular on some servers.
And as someone who has played, I've seen things happen both ways, Destruction kicking Order butt, and Order kicking Destruction butt. It just depended on what server I was on.
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