Player Consequences: Getting back to Grouping
by Gabriel Runfeldt 
Sep 4th 2008 at 1:00PM
Filed under: World of Warcraft, Game mechanics, Warhammer Online, PvE, Player Consequences
As long as World of Warcraft remains the top performing MMO on the market most game developers are going to assume that only the minority of players actually prefer grouping. I've seen people compare the subscription numbers of World of Warcraft to games like EverQuest 2 to support this argument. It's obvious that most players would rather keep the solo friendly format then be forced back into the days of required grouping. However, the situation doesn't require that MMOs have to be designed to cater to just one style of gameplay. Some minor changes could be implemented in modern questing and leveling design, which would greatly encourage cooperative grouping. Most MMOs that are oriented on solo questing only discourage grouping by accident and not on purpose. Still some of these "accidents" tend to be very annoying to anyone trying to level with a group of friends.
Developers have been so enthusiastic towards making MMOs solo friendly that lately they have failed to provide any benefits for those wishing to group. Most games reflect this problem by having questing systems that discourage grouping except when having to face tougher foes. Nowhere is this more visible then when experience is divided between group members. Often individual players will get much less experience per mob when fighting in a group then when compared to soloing. To make matters worse most games only increase the group experience bonus to a decent level when it is full. This is fine when facing a challenge like a dungeon, but questing groups are often much smaller. Also since most areas have a limited amount of spawns, killing them at a faster rate doesn't really help with leveling and often contributes to a period of increased downtime.
Besides the unfriendly drop in experience, there is also the issue of actually completing a quest. Some quests like those that ask you escort a NPC usually become easier as the size of the group increases. The problem is that the most common type of quest seems to be the most unfriendly to larger groups. I'm talking about the annoying collection/kill quests which requires you to pick up ground spawns or get items from specific mobs. Developers seem to delight in putting particularly random loot tables for collection quests especially those involving animal parts. It's become a longstanding joke in the genre that a lot of animals seem to be missing livers and hearts. Also particularly annoying is when developers forget that a full group of players might all have the same quest requiring them to loot something off the ground. A four-minute respawn timer doesn't seem very long until you've had to wait for it five times in a row.
The biggest obstacle to forming groups in modern MMOs might be the overly complex looking-for-group tools. Often they seem purposely designed to prevent the average player from adopting it. In the early days of EverQuest, there was a simple looking-for-group tag, which could be turn on or off. Players could use basic text commands to search a range of levels for anyone who had the tag on. It was quick, efficient, and everyone in the game used the system. Compare this to the unpopular looking-for-group tool in World of Warcraft that forces players to list the objective of their group. No one really uses the tool since it limits players to only three objectives and uses drop-down boxes filled with the names of dungeons and raids. In general, it's much more efficient to simply shout for a group in the Shattrath general channel. A classic sign of a game with poor looking-for-group tools is the presence of acronyms like "LFG" and "LF1M" filling the chat channels.
Most players see that a lack of useful tools and bad game design have made grouping a much more troublesome task then it use to be. This becomes evident in most end game content, which requires a group of skilled teammates working together in harmony. In my experience, it seems to be much harder to achieve this in modern games when compared to older ones like EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI. In fact, the concept of the bad pick-up-group or "PUG" never really existed until modern MMOs made it possible to solo to the end game. Then all of sudden you had a lot of players who wanted to explore higher end dungeons and raid content, but lacked experience playing their class in a group setting. These players eventually learn how to work in a group though there were some growing pains. As I said before this wouldn't have been a problem if modern MMOs encouraged a mix of grouping and soloing as a player leveled up.
This seems to be what Warhammer Online is trying to achieve with some of its innovated game design. The game may be based around PvP combat, but an experienced group still holds a distinct advantage over an inexperienced one. Anyone who has tried an arena setting in a MMO will tell you that a group that works well together can often beat better-geared opponents. Warhammer Online certainly seems to want players to PvP in groups since many of the features the critics are gushing over encourage this behavior. The public quest system alone is a big boost to getting players used to working with other people. It also seems to give bonuses to players who learn the role of their class in a group. In particular, I've heard that healing classes receive influence and roll bonuses if they heal during public quest events. This is very different from other games where healers often receive little to no benefit for helping others.
Warhammer Online also has a nice looking-for-group tool that seems much easier for forming groups. Instead of requiring players to enter information and scroll through drop-down boxes, it simply places a player into any nearby groups with open spots. If a group only has one spot and they need a specific class type then they can simply close their group. Players have the option to close their groups to only guild members or people on their friends list. My experience in the recent preview weekend showed me that the system was easy to use and I actually spent more time in a group leveling then any game since classic EverQuest. The amazing thing was that I don't believe soloing would have gained me experience any faster, it just would have been less interesting.
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Gabriel Runfeldt has been following MMOs ever since he stumbled onto an EverQuest addiction by accident. He eventually managed to fight it off but caught a case of armchair designer syndrome in the process. Now once a week you can catch his mad ravings here at Player Consequences. You can even contact him with any questions at gabriel.runfeldt AT weblogsinc.com |
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Scopique said on 2:55PM 9-04-2008
"As I said before this wouldn't have been a problem if modern MMOs encouraged a mix of grouping and soloing as a player leveled up."
You've actually PLAYED modern MMOs, correct? So far, every one I've played in recent memory (and my memory is pretty good) HAS this mix of solo and group quests.
I have to say, as a soloist, I'd prefer if the designers don't try to push me to group up. I'm not anti-group; I'm anti PUG for all the reasons you mentioned above. Plus, sometimes you don't have a lot of time during your session. LFG/M CAN force you to sit around spamming the channels, with no guarantee that you'll get what you need.
I think too many people still think that the MAIN reason people play these games is to socialize. If that were the case, Second Life would have more members then WoW. People are after the advancement, the loot and the "personal glory", no matter how illusory that notion is. People still like to play the game on their own terms. Sometimes groups can get in the way of that, so developers shouldn't force people to play in a way that's counter to his or her enjoyment.
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InfamousBrad said on 2:21PM 9-04-2008
Well said. On the design of quests making grouping a pain, also consider that the standard MMO design gives quests in a random order, depending on which yellow exclamation points you find in what order. And that means that the odds of any other person you might team with having the same quests as you are basically nill, which hardly encourages cooperation. After all, only one person on the team is getting quest bonuses.
Other than that, I love grouping, but what I really hate is looking for a group, or recruiting for a group. It ends up taking longer to put together a team than it takes to just plain play the game. That's the real reason I end up treating most MMOs as single player games with a chat system. I'm just as curious as to how the open groups function will turn out in WAR as I am about the public quests.
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Greeen said on 2:34PM 9-04-2008
If I take DDO as a comparison, there is so little solo content, that you have to group. That per se isn't a problem, the integrated tool works pretty well, although even there one finds LFG in the chat channels. Problem in DDO is, that while you are searching, or don't feel like grouping (by choice or by circumstances) there is not much for you to do in this specific game :( At least in e.g. you could do other things, like crafting.
(very vell described in a massively article a couple or so months back).
Re - InfamousBrad: there is in most MMOs a ShareQuest function. Works though o/c only if it is not chainquest.
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InfamousBrad said on 8:30PM 9-04-2008
I'm aware that most games have a function to share quests. Having lead pick-up groups in several MMOs lately, I've been in a position to see what other quests the people on my team had. Sharing wouldn't have done any of us any good, because never -- not even once -- did any two of us have even one quest in common. So I stand by what I said: we could be doing my quest, your question, person #3's quest, doesn't matter whose quest we do, only one of us is going to get the quest completion bonus at any given time.
recursive said on 3:35PM 9-04-2008
Yeah.. your experiences don't really match with my own. Ever try switching guilds? Also.. geared to soloing? *rolls eyes* If anything, the games you mention are geared for both, a bare necessity in this Age of Expansions. Sure there have been games more focussed on grouping only, but often that was actually one of their biggest obstacles.
In regards to the WoW tool, it's not that bad but was a case of too little - too late, should have been in there from the start. Mythic's got that going for them, but saying that'll fix grouping is a bit much. Similarly, public quests sound great, but strike me as actually more appealing to players used to soloing/casual grouping (as there's less commitment required, which I don't mean in a desparaging way) and I doubt they'll influence things like raiding or (especially) PvP at all.
As is, I personally prefer grouping and prefer doing it with friends over trying to get a random group because a) it's fun and b) pugs aren't always fun. The latter could be because people don't have a lot of experience, but I think that's an oversimplification. I've had great fun wiping all night and have had bad experiences with "elite" players cruising through an instance (or, again, wiping all night) as well.
The fun factor determines how I look for my next group first and a tool can't pick that for me, which is why I suspect we'll still see plenty of premades.
Which is not to say these features aren't nice to have. The biggest appeal WAR has to me besides being shiny and new and hopefully heavy on immersion is the quick access to fun factor. But I'm not expecting this to reform players on the scale you're talking about at all.
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Brian! said on 3:47PM 9-04-2008
WoW has screwed up player grouping pretty darn bad. Plain and simple. In almost every other game out there grouping has benefits.
There are a lot of factors to WoW that make it work, but I would actually say that the unfriendly grouping is a big problem. One they don't see now, but is a serious crack in their empire.
The fact is, WoW is an unfriendly place to be. Like you mentioned, only WoW has "PuGs." which are supposed to be all bad. Yet just last night I was rocking in a PuG (or I guess PuT) in City of Villains. Totally fun.
Heck, every time I sign up on Team Fortress 2 I am in a PuG of some sort. Yet that game is hugely successful.
WoW seriously blows in the community department. Their party tools suck, their guild tools suck, and they lack serious community building gameplay elements. They even go so far as to offer RP servers but ignore any features that might actually encourage RP itself.
Look, Netscape - right company at the right time. There was no way anyone was going to replace that browser yet somehow it was. Then they said IE can't be beat with Microsoft pushing it they way it does, but look at Firefox making huge inroads every day.
WoW is not the end all of MMOs. Period. There is plenty of room for improvement.
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Solice said on 4:55PM 9-04-2008
For those that have not yet had a chance to play WAR; the open party grouping system, and public quests are ridiculously good and easy to use. You can open a window and immediately see and search through all groups in the same zone as you. You can automatically join those groups then travel to meet them. Also, public quests are basically PUG raids with out the need to actually PUG. Just by helping out in a public quest you are basically treated as being part of a raid consisting of everyone in the public quest area. You get rewarded for participation (including healing and tanking) and you don't even have to stay to the end to get a reward.
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Skypp said on 5:19PM 9-04-2008
Well, I wasn't expecting this article to turn into a Warhammer advertisement.
From that aside, the worst thing is to have grouping actually make you level slower. Grouping together means you get all the quests done faster, but then you only get 2 levels from quests that would give you 5 levels if you had solo'd them. So now you have 3 levels to make up some way because now you've run out and are forced to go to the next leveling area way too early.
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woeye said on 2:32AM 9-05-2008
Interesting comments! Personally I really think the LFG tool in WoW is a big pain in the ... For example let's assume I play my healer and I like to go into an instance. Actually I do not care about which instance. Any instance would be ok. Now, the funny thing is, you cannot do this in WoW. This stupid tool wants a specific instance. But what if someone searches a healer for a raid? What people do is they spam LFM healer on the trade or other channels.
Now let's take it a step further. Assume I am on my twink because I do not want to stand around waiting for a group. WoW's LFG tool will not work for me because, frankly, it only allows me to register for instances of my own level.
Why can't I log in, open the tool and do a quick scan about what is going on? That would be cool! Like: Hey, they're search a healer for Kara. Or: Hey, they're searching a tank for Scarlet Monestary. Let's relog. That would be cool!
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JuJutsu said on 6:20PM 9-04-2008
"In fact, the concept of the bad pick-up-group or "PUG" never really existed until modern MMOs made it possible to solo to the end game. "
You've led a very sheltered existence. Nightmare PUGs were a common feature of my EQ gaming.
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THAC0 said on 7:54PM 9-04-2008
I personally dont take games too seriously and find even nightmare pugs provide me with a good time. I laugh at the disaster and have a story to tell after.
I'm really looking forward to WAR because of its group friendliness because its really hard to find even a bad PUG sometimes in games due to everyone playing solo.
I play MMOs for the people not the levels.
Relmstein said on 7:17PM 9-04-2008
Some nice responses in this thread and it looks like a lot of people have varying experiences with the MMOs I talked about. I going to clarify a couple points I brought up.
World of Warcraft does have a lot of group quests involving dungeons and elite mobs to kill. However, these type of quests seem more designed to encourage temporary grouping. Everyone wants to team up for the elite mob in the area, but no one wants to stay grouped for the collection quest which comes afterwards. Players should be able to solo to max level, but there shouldn't be game design which automatically breaks up a group after the "hard" part.
I should also mention that I played EverQuest from Kunark to Gates of Dischord and that the game was very group oriented at that time. There wasn't really a concept of PUGs being bad since grouping with strangers was a requirement to level. It was just sometimes you had bad luck and unstable connections. I tried the game again recently during the living legacy promotion and its much more friendly to solo though the combat is still too slow for my tastes.
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Wjowski said on 8:42PM 9-04-2008
People make solo-friendly games because people want solo-friendly games. And as long as MMOs rely upon a level-treadmill based system that ends up with top-heavy playerbases this trend is not going away anytime soon.
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Jeromai said on 5:19AM 9-05-2008
I think one anchor that we'll see again in future MMOs is the open grouping system.
The flexibility for the person desiring a group to choose on his own initiative what he wants to do now - depending on what's going on around him - is great.
Unfortunately there's a caveat to open grouping. The game design has to support the formation of PUGs that aren't nightmares (on average) and encourage groups as more fun/interesting/complex than simple soloing.
Easy to understand team role function, a clear group objective which can be easily accepted by all, bonus rewards for grouping, and minor penalties for people not performing at max effectiveness seem to be the key to encouraging inclusiveness.
I can only think of three MMOs where I'd join a PUG in a heartbeat.
LOTRO's PvE has much of the same grouping problem of its precursor MMOs. But in Monster Play in the Ettenmoors, I note a more inclusive mindset at work. An open group is almost always present to grab any monster player for enough critical mass to defeat an objective - be it gathering enough people to fight freeps or take back keeps.
PvE in CoX has the benefit of a group objective that doesn't turn into a squabble over whose quest to do. Whatever mission being done will still offer xp rewards. Practically any combination of classes will succeed (as long as 3-4 players actually know what they're doing, there's room for laggards of any stripe, newbies or 'leeches' alike.)
It's still not ideal, there's still the perceived problem of fair contribution, the onus is on the team leader to spend effort to form up a team, and invites send up a 'popup' that can get in the way.
But there's a big group of people who PUG all the time, find it fun and contribute to the critical mass acceptance of PUGs as a valid playstyle.
WAR's grouping hinges on a very clever design element. Geography. People don't want to run from one corner of the land to another just to meet up, in order to do something together. So the people closest to each other are more likely to group up.
WAR's public quests and RvR 'lakes' also work on the geography principle. Stand near a public quest area and voila, you're participating in it. May as well join the open group there. Ditto for RvR areas, having a guild group is all very well, but if you're a stranger alone in a hostile land, grouping up with other loners at least gives a little more safety in numbers.
The other PvE quests in WAR still fall back on the same age-old MMO principles, so they're trickier to do in a group. You can share them, the item lottery is gone in favor of 'you killed it, you get the item/quest update,' but you're still going to be running back and forth doing something one guy has picked.
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