Is the honeymoon over for Warhammer Online?
Filed under: Fantasy, Culture, Game mechanics, Warhammer Online, Opinion, Humor
Despite the fact that Daedren spends much of his article reaming Warhammer Online, he ends by admitting that it may just be a general disdain for the fantasy genre as a whole, while WAR may just basically be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He writes, "Whatever happened to making a player feel like they are a hero?" "The reason that D&D and Warhammer tabletop games were popular is because the story revolved around the players; they could noticeably affect and change the world based on their decisions. This main aspect and magic of the game is lost in a sea of inane, repetitive and fun killing "Quests"."
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Jess said on 2:53PM 10-08-2008
I know I'm getting kind of tired with WAR. Not only is it laughable when it comes to being faithful to true Warhammer lore, but the fact that it is so PvP heavy is at the same time its greatest strength AND weakness:
The PvP is awesome, make no mistake, but the rest of the game is average at best. As a PvP MMO it stands way ahead of the pack, but in every other regard (graphics, PvE, crafting, social tools/aspects) the game is basically balls and falls behind (WAY) behind more rounded masterieces such as LOTRO and, yes dare I say it, even WoW.
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JP said on 2:54PM 10-08-2008
One "blooger"'s opionion means the honeymoon is over? doubtful. There is far far far more positive reaction coming from/for this game then negative.
As far as being the hero: Play a single player game. In a massive online game, everyone can't be the star. It defeats the purpose. what's the saying... if everyone is special, no one is.
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my2cents said on 3:21PM 10-08-2008
After reading the article, it's clear to me that he simply doesn't like fantasy MMOs (or possibly MMOs in general.) Virtually all his complaints can be applied to WoW, LOTRO, AoC, EQ2, etc.
He complains that you can't change anything in WAR because even if you burn Altdorf down, it resets eventually. Now honestly, how would you make an MMO where your actions toward the environment were permanent? Altdorf was burned down? Oh well, there goes the Order capitol forever. You want to complete that dungeon? Too bad someone already did and now all its residents are dead forever...come on.
Personally, I'm loving WAR. I'm at level 25 and couldn't be happier so far. Is it perfect? No. But it's pretty damn good and I can't wait to see what the future holds for the game.
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Leshrac said on 3:22PM 10-08-2008
I agree a lot with the blogger; PVP in WAR gets old fast. RvR is a lagfest, Order gets quickly outnumbered on my server, NPCs are bugged and they rubber band all over the place. Why bother taking a Keep or a BO when you know in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't mean a thing.
Scenarios are boring, I'm not going to Scenario grind to RR 80, no damn way - ain't gonna happen.
So - what do you do when you're not in the mood to PVP? Well, grind PQs - well, sorry again but after grinding up to Chapter 12 PQs I'd rather swallow broken glass. PVE in WAR sux.
I'm pretty sure that I am canceling my account, I have a few weeks left and I'm really hoping that the game catches fire with me but I think the blogger hit the nail on the head; its just boring and I just don't care about the Factions and/or Keeps and Scenarios.
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nosedive51 said on 3:40PM 10-08-2008
With those complaints you must hate every MMO.
Megad00mer said on 3:22PM 10-08-2008
It sounds like Daedren is more tired of MMO's in general than WAR in particular. WAR just happens to be the latest one he's played so it's getting the brunt of his venom.
On the subject of feeling like the hero: In WAR you're supposed to a solider in a war, not the savior of the universe amidst a sea of other saviors of the universe. If you want to be a unique and beautiful snowflake, play a single player RPG.
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Jeni said on 4:16PM 10-08-2008
Warcraft is actually going to have this in in Northrend. They call it "Phasing." Once you clear some objectives and do some quest chains, that village you helped isn't going to be filled with worgen anymore. They'll be happy and rebuilding for you.
^__^ Yay!
Daedren said on 3:41PM 10-08-2008
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the feedback. I wanted to clearly portray that I think this is a case of "burning out" on MMO's, which I mentioned at the end of the article. Like I said, I wanted to like WAR, I wanted it to be my new timesink (as sad as that sounds) - but I just couldn't do it.
I agree with Leshrac. PVP and RVR is boring - and I play on a high population, pretty even server (Burlok) that's known as one of the better EU servers. Sure, taking a keep was fun the first few times, even in Tier 2 and Tier 3. I'm sure it's better in Tier 4. The point is that it's all for nothing.
However, on the opposite side, I have to give Mythic praise for implementing a game where you can finally progress (kind of) via PVP and RVR. It's a step in the right direction. The big mark against this is that MJ and the Mythic crew repeatedly, almost beat a horse into "Open World RVR will be more beneficial than Scenarios" - Yeah, thanks Mark, but that's not the case. If it was, why put scenarios in the first place? I know myself and a lot of other anti-instanced PVP fans abhor Scenarios. It just feels unnatural.
@my2cents: You're over generalizing. It *is* possible to have the players affect the world, a company just hasn't done it yet. If you're telling me *IT CAN'T BE DONE!* - well, I disagree. The game industry needs to be pushed to its creative limit, and churning out recycled crap like this isn't a step in the right direction.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. ;)
-- Daedren
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my2cents said on 3:35AM 10-09-2008
There is always room for innovation, but keep in mind this is a PvP-centric MMO with two opposing factions. If the actions of anyone were too permanent or severe, you would find servers where one faction was totally and irrevocably annihilated.
I don't think that would be fun for the people on the losing faction or for the people on the winning faction who now have nothing to do but gloat.
Perhaps there are ways of getting around this that are yet to be discovered. In fact, I'm quite sure there are. "When there's a will, there's a way." But in the meantime there are games such as WAR. I think it's a great example of the genre as it currently stands. If there's something wrong with the overall quality of the game, that's one thing. But if the general concept and mechanics are not to your liking, then I'd say you don't like MMOs. And that's fine! Personally, I love it. =)
tenfoldhate said on 3:54PM 10-08-2008
I can certainly see why PvE fans would not stick with WAR past the first month. However, what people seem to be forgetting is WAR is a PvP game. It's really not designed to hold the interest of PvE enthusiasts--nor should it be. WAR is filling a void in the genre that's needed filling since the glory days of DAoC. Personally, I only PvE in WAR as filler while I'm waiting for scenario queues or as something fun to do as I'm first exploring a new region.
PvEers already have EQ, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO, and a host of other non-"A" list titles to satiate them. It's like going to a baseball game and complaining about a lack of contact--that's why there's hockey and boxing.
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csavarda said on 4:16PM 10-08-2008
The honeymoon isn't over for me. Rank 26 and loving it. I'm a day one WoW vet, pre-ordered both it and TBC when they came out. Loved em both. Yet I have no plans to play WotLK yet, not until after I find out how the rank 40 game pans out in WAR. They do need to provide more incentives to people to do open RvR as opposed to scenarios, I agree.
You shouldn't be playing WAR like a grind. If all you are focused on is EXP and RR then it will get old very quickly. I think the main reason I've been having so much fun is because I don't focus on progression, I just do whatever I happen to feel like doing and the levels and ranks come naturally.
With WoW it was always, must get level 70, must get epic mount, must get new piece of gear, must get battleground tokens, must get exalted with someone. In WAR I feel more like, well, it feels more like I'm playing the game instead of the game playing me. I don't chase carrots, I just do whatever is fun.
On the topic of MMOs that make you feel like you have an impact on the world, how about Pre-CU SWG? I've been missing that game a lot lately, reading up on what kind of progress the emu has made and looking forward to it.
To this day I would still go back to that game in a heartbeat, because it was the only MMO where I felt my character was actually a part of the world and not just another toon logging in and out of it. That was a true virtual world and there were great communities built because of it.
Daedren said on 4:00PM 10-08-2008
@tenfoldhate: I hate PVE with a passion. I didn't actually do any PVE on my main character until my high teens - that is, when I had done Mourkain Temple for the 200th time and finally said "Must... see... something... else"
Tier 3 is about 100 times worse. I think I know every inch of Tor Anoc. It's just so amazingly slow to only try and do scenarios to progress. You almost *have* to work PVE in. So, I did... and the boredom hit.
I was left with a choice of mind numbingly same PVP or soul-sucking PVE. I chose neither.
I had these feelings also even in my first impressions of the game in closed and open beta. I thought it would be better upon launch. I thought wrong.
Anyway, just another MMO vet burned out on the industry. Nothing to see here, right?
-- Daedren
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possum said on 4:16PM 10-08-2008
Nothing new was said in that article. This guy/gal is simply another burnout blogging his/her experiance, there is no insight for those seeking it, just another post about something i was harping about from day one.
Folks will play what they want to, they dont like it, they leave, no science to it.
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Daedren said on 4:24PM 10-08-2008
@possum: thanks for the valuable insight. What are you, the fucking Swami of MMO's?
"Nothing new was said in that article" -- I'm pretty sure the phrases "Squig Vicious" and something about naked kittens running around playing Witch Elves.
You might not agree with it, but don't hate on the guy just because something he wrote is here. You sound like a jealous prick.
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Sephirah said on 6:06PM 10-08-2008
Interesting that Massively thinks that the opinion of someone posting in their forum sentences like "thanks for the valuable insight. What are you, the fucking Swami of MMO's?" is valuable enough for an article in which is stated that players are tired of WAR...
crsh said on 4:25PM 10-08-2008
Like it or not, Daedren outlines the problem with the MMO market; how many of the games that came out since WoW became a huge success tried to mimic it for the sole purpose of raking in millions of dollars?
You can blame developers, or you can blame publishers who only give funding to the ones who promise they'll make the ultimate WoW killer.
While I think Mythic and others (Funcom comes to mind as well) have good ideas, they're stuck having to put up with the crap "make me a successful WoW clone or go away, there are tons of developers starving for funding" mentality that only breeds more mediocrity.
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Mythic said on 4:30PM 10-08-2008
EVE allows for player owned stations, and the 0.0 space is all about persistently changing the world and claiming space/resources while engaging in mass logistical warfare between alliances.
Maybe you should trade in your tights and pointy ears for a micro-warp drive and some lasers...
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csavarda said on 4:58PM 10-08-2008
Right. Epic battles between the player and his UI.
Daedren said on 4:35PM 10-08-2008
@Mythic: I tried it my man, I tried. I wanted to like EVE. I've tried it twice now. While I didn't have any Corp or really friends, I just couldn't get past the combat of the game. I found it almost sleepingly boring to watch shields go down slowly.... slowly... slowly... boom, ship destroyed. Then I slowly.... slowly.... slowly... go loot the ship.
I heard stuff gets faster at higher levels, but I couldn't make it there. It was an exercise in tedium and I failed.
The lack of planetary exploration was also a big negative for me. Give me Star Control 2 MMO and I'll die a happy man.
-- Daedren
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Nadril said on 4:35PM 10-08-2008
What you're complaining about as far as scenario goes is all a community problem, not a problem that mythic can really fix easily.
In T4 things change, at least world PvP wise. And once more players get up to the max level we will see a variety of scenarios being played and some great RvR action.
Just give the game time to mature. Right now the community is still in the power leveling mindset, which means that because open RvR doesn't give as much XP players are largely just questing and doing scenarios that can grant them the "highest XP/hour".
As a 35 black orc I am involved in keep sieges constantly, as it's an on going battle between order and destruction. One day we'll just sweep the floor and grab the keeps, and the next they'll be working on getting them back.
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