The Daily Grind: Are 'quest contacts' becoming outdated?
Filed under: The Daily Grind
Everybody knows and understands the quest model. You go to see a guy. The guy asks you to do something. You go and kill the ten rats, or click the object, or fetch the shrubbery, or whatever. You return to the guy. He rewards you and may ask you to do something else. Repeat, with variations, several gazillion times over. Ever since the first RPGs had you encounter the Guy in the Tavern who Needed Something Done, quests and contacts have been a staple of the genre.But the model is mutating more and more. Warhammer Online's public quests do away with the need for a quest-giving contact altogether. Although you still visit a Rally Master to cash in your Influence, the quest simply applies to an area, rather than being handed out by a contact. Now, we've learned that DC Universe Online will offer a great deal of dynamically spawned content centered upon the player, popping up as you move through the city, and though it will still have traditional questing it will generate a great deal of its content spontaneously, through 'encounters' instead of quests.
Is this the way things are likely to go in the future? Is this the way we want them to go? Are we collectively tired of the Guy who Needs Something Done, and yearning for new mechanics? Or are we risking tinkering with something too fundamental to change?
_thumbnail.jpg "Aion Beta: Asmodian Ascension Quest")
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Greeen said on 8:45AM 10-12-2008
very good question.
it depends a bit on e.g. if it is a sandbox game or not.
SWG for example is sandbox plus the mechanics allow for radio-ed missions (which exist already, but more for ongoing missions to get updated that way).
if one takes wow - how would that work? in terms of public quests as in war perhaps yes. I like the concept of it, since it doesn't clutter up your journal, and you don't have to run around to find questgiver. On the ohter hand, if you don't know where those pqs are, then it becomes like a sandbox where you need direction unless you are the searching adventurer.
no matter what we want, i think the near future will hold a combination as we see in war. no one dares to make anything radically different due to fear of loosing subscribers.....
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Bam! said on 8:49AM 10-12-2008
If you'll remember Asheron's Call 2 got rid of NPC's all together. All quests were bestowed by certain triggers, and ended that way too. Later they added a couple NPC's, but the point remains, look where it is today.
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Gylfi said on 9:16AM 10-12-2008
First and foremost the problem with quests today is not that they are infact quests, since as You said they are the staple of rpg's since ever.. the problem comes when, in each game, these are provided in the EXACT same way, same structure, even with the same quest window (description, rewards, accept/decline button).
But quests are probably better suited in single player games, since each of them will be better appreciated as part of a tight plot you're fretting to unfold.. a MMO environment makes every attempt of story needless and tedious, since, like in WAR, the story is completely detached from the very gameplay mechanics.
so i hope they either disappear entirely or they are provided in a way you don't recognize them as classic scheme of NPC with his exclamation mark, cause it's too repetitive and generic.
the difference of public quests is more cosmetic than real, it's good marketing slogans, to me.
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Simon said on 9:18AM 10-12-2008
I'd perhaps like to see a choice of quest-givers with opposing outcomes i.e. to give a sense of moral choice.
e.g. in your starting area you might help the militia that are trying to beat back some brigands - or you might help the brigands.
So if you've chosen a good or bad path, the game would then give you access to different sorts of quests and you'd follow a story that changed because of your choices.
Sort of KOTOR meets MMOs - which Bioware are probably about to announce anyway...
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Bam! said on 9:26AM 10-12-2008
I forgot to mention, though bounded by the same NPC interaction, those that want more from quests should look to DDO, it's hard to get better than that. I always describe it as Neverwinter Nights meets Tomb Raider.
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sikk said on 9:41AM 10-12-2008
I would really like to see the questing model of today done away with. EQ1 did questing right! You say wtf? I say, EPIC QUESTS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HARD OMGZ. Okay let me catch those of you up that didn't play EQ1. EQ1 had basically 1 quest per class that would get them in the beginning, the best weapon in the game for that class. These quests were very cryptic in design and some weren't even completed till months after release due to the sheer complexity and puzzles the quests were made up of. Basically imagine a 20 step quest line that includes killing 10 gods/bosses from around the world, speaking certain words to npcs to trigger text to advance you in the quest line, finding specific items in the world that spawn once a day etc. Those were the type of epic quests EQ1 offered.
Now I'm not saying do away with questing entirely or make every quest super long but I would like to see games take what EQ1 had in epic style quests and add to it. I'd really like to see basic quest models done away with and make quests actually have meaning. Make me want to read everything there is to read on a quest and figure out how to complete it on my own. I don't need my hand held. Add puzzles, riddles to the design instead of the same old stuff we see over and over "go here and kill this, go take this to this guy, go find 5 of these and bring them to me". I mean seriously is this stuff all you guys can think of? What ever happened to that thing called creativity?
I would much prefer to grind npcs while I camp named spawns for loot with my friends and do maybe 10-20 epic scale quests through the entire game that actually had stories behind them and gave me incentive to want to know what happens next than to ride a train of quests solo while not meeting any people and getting very lackluster rewards that end up being vendor fodder.
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Greeen said on 11:41AM 10-12-2008
I understand entirely what you are out after. Sounds terrific, even, errr, epic.
The problem though is, this will not go well with the casual player. I see that in SWG atm, the so called Rebel or Imp theme park. You need to group for this quest series. Problem is, that, unless you have friends with same daily life schedule as you, it will be difficult for them or you, to meet over days to do the quest together.
And doing pick-up groups is not everybodies cookie either.
Another group-centric game is DDO - no epic questlines there, but after a certain level there is not much solo content - so if you want to "quickly" jump in, do some questing, or grinding, you are screwed.
And grinding in general, well, that is definetly not everyones piece of cake. And before you say, don't play such a game then, well, one is dependent on the masses, and the masses are more casual oriented nowadays.
MeowCat said on 9:46AM 10-12-2008
Some great ideas and comments here so far. One thing I would like to see is less of an out-and-back format. Its no fun when you have 40 quests in your book and you have to relocated 4 people to finish up. As a rule, I would like more unidirectional quests that provide your exp. & reward when you get to a point or finish a task. Maybe even have "quest points" that accumulate so you can spend them on multiple rewards at a central vendor in key locations (capital cities, central points for RvR, etc).
The other thing to keep in mind is that, like a literature, MMOs are maturing or at least evolving. Standards change. It may be that the writing and intricacies of quests also have to improve.
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Tony said on 10:24AM 10-12-2008
Let's say I go to an area and I start killing Enemy A, if there's going to be a quest for that in vicinity I think credit should start building up for that before I talk to a quest giver. So instead of finding out I need to kill 25 Enemy As after I've killed 50 already just getting to the town... I can just be told by the quest giver "oh, I see you've killed a bunch of those, thanks for helping!" and I get the reward.
I'm really tired of situations like that in MMORPGs.
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Greeen said on 11:35AM 10-12-2008
oh yes, that is an excellent point.
i kill 15 wolves on my way to point A. there is questgiver asking me to kill 15 wolves.... err I already did that. I even have paws as proof....
Vulturion said on 1:19PM 10-12-2008
I would prefer more interactive quest givers to none at all :
- Dialogue Trees -
E.g. If the item you fetched is more useful than the reward you can keep it yourself or extort them.
E.g. If they want a rival group dead and you have high 'diplomacy' you can try to talk them round to a treaty, at which point the quest switches from kill X to persuade X.
- Quest Givers As Allies -
So instead of being an indestructable bystander, the NPC is an active participant and you have to weigh up their capabilities and psychology rather than simply filling your log.
E.g. The apothecary doesn't trust YOU ( wandering Samurai Mage ) to pick her herbs, so for the quest you have to escort and protect her.
I think there would be a lot of unexplored mileage in this...
E.g. The lumberjack wants 50 forest wolves dead and is looking for someone to help him kill them - but you can keep him with you to help protect the apothecary too so long as you keep him sweet by killing a wolf every 2 minutes and don't wander off outside his forest ( of course if you get him killed then his quest resets and your wolf progress is lost ).
- 'Brag' Quest Designer -
[ I'm sure something like this is in some Final Fantasy game, so cannot take the credit. ]
Every area could have a town crier, government official or other blabbermouth NPC - when you talk to these you can design your own custom quest with the idea being that the XP / renown / etc. comes from said NPC bragging about your accomplishment to all and sundry.
E.g. Pick a monster type from that region + a number + a time limit > game evaluates how much such a quest would be worth at your level.
E.g. Pick a boss monster from that region + a party size limit > game evaluates.
What I really don't want to see is further movement towards quest NPCs gathering in hubs ( as they sadly do in WAR ) ; I loathe quest chains where NPCs send you back to the same distant location over & over ( scout that area > go back and kill the minions > go back and kill the boss ) - just put NPCs near the objective unless exploration is the point of the quest !
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Eldritch said on 9:59AM 10-13-2008
Regarding the EQ1 Epic Quest example:
Those quest where only hard for the first people to figure out, following in theire footsteps was only tedious with those spawn timers and raid drops.
Whats needed are more dynamic Quests, with an impact on the world: kill the big dragon, dragons, gone but leaves a empty lair, soon to be filled with new nasties etc. MMO worlds need to get more dynamic instead of static repetative and so need quests change over time...
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sikk said on 9:21PM 10-13-2008
I agree with the dynamic world comment. This is something Darkfall hopes to deliver and that is one of the many reasons I am waiting for that game to be released. When questing feels more like a chore to get more exp to level faster and not to tell a story or impact the world in some way is when I tend to lose interest in what I am doing and focus on, well, doing just that. This is what needs to I feel.
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