CCP Games kills 'ghost training' on inactive EVE accounts
Filed under: Sci-fi, EVE Online, Business models, Exploits, Forums, Game mechanics, Patches, Professions, News items
EVE Online players who habitually 'ghost train' their alts on inactive accounts are about to be given a wake-up call. The myriad options that a player can take in the sandbox game means that training up specialized alts is a common practice. The time-based skill training system in EVE means that higher ranked skills can take well over a month to train to their maximum of level five. When creating a carrier or mothership alt, for example, it's typical to simply, well, not pay $15 for a month when you're not actually playing on that character while your skill training progresses.
This isn't limited to capital ship alts though. Many players unsubscribe after queuing up a long skill and resub once skill training is complete. This is how it's always been in the game (at least since this writer began playing), and by all indications is something CCP Games has been well aware of. Those days, as confirmed in today's announcement from CCP, are over.
CCP Fallout stated: "A long overdue and much needed change will be put in place with the Wednesday, 15 October 2008 patch. Ghost Training, the continuous skill gain on accounts in an inactive or expired state - will no longer function after Wednesday, 15 October 2008. This practice upsets the balance of the game, and capsuleers who actively put their time an energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
The EVE forums are, predictably, lighting up with commentary on this change. Where do you stand on this issue?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
David said on 2:56PM 10-13-2008
Well, I always said a timed based lvl system was the worst idea in the whole game I can see why people do it. Why pay 15 bucks a month when there is nothing you can really do to get that skill to train faster.
Lack of advancement from play was one of the main reasons I quit playing Eve ages ago.
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Brendan Drain said on 3:00PM 10-13-2008
Since you don't actually put time and energy into skill training in EVE, wouldn't it have been more accurate for CCP to say "capsuleers who actively pay to work on their characters "?
To be honest though, this change was long overdue. CCP were losing out on valuable income from players training a second account and letting the subscription lapse.
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jagdpanther said on 3:55PM 10-13-2008
I played eve off and on, and this "ghost training" actually gave me incentive to come back after a break because I knew I would have a nice big shiny new skill waiting for me. Oh well, one more reason for me not to play eve at all anymore.
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Reader said on 6:08PM 10-13-2008
Lame, that's where 3/4ths my SP is from :P
(not really, more like a tenth)
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Weiser_Cain said on 8:17PM 10-13-2008
They should just dump that system not make it worse. Playing the game should advance the character not waiting around, paying or not.
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Col Carter said on 8:45PM 10-13-2008
as with the last times, the riot is not so much about the change (even though CCP are lying about it, considering they use the feature as a PR element and advertise it anywhere from ads to the player guide), but again about the manner and form in which it is dumped on the subscribers.
That combined with how first CCP changed GameTimeCode mechanics and removed several types of accessible GTC types, and the recent "Power of 2" program (get another account incentive basically) makes a big deal of the subscriber base feel anything between not taken serious, abused, and ripped off.
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Seeker Ash said on 9:13PM 10-13-2008
With this desperately shortsighted move and the bald-faced lies CCP use to defend it, I've effectively lost faith that the game will survive, and so I've canceled my (one) subscription. That's where I stand.
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Mythic said on 2:23AM 10-14-2008
I think CCP made a logical and understandable change. If you want to advance a character, pay for the account. (Just like in every other MMO...)
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Brendan Drain said on 3:31PM 10-14-2008
Agreed, but the main problem was that once again they hid the change behind a fake and very obvious PR front.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting players freeloading, getting part of a service they aren't paying for. They're a company and need to make sure they aren't losing a potential revenue stream, especially with the decline in the average customer's disposable income. The problem was that they didn't say that. Instead, they gave a shoddy marketing line about people spending time and energy developing their characters, something which doesn't apply to EVE at all.
Frank said on 4:13AM 10-14-2008
At any point a player finds that it better not to play the game might be an indication to change a mechanic.
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James Egan said on 6:33PM 10-14-2008
While this doesn't really impact me, I can see people with multiple accounts getting angry about this. Dreads 5, Carrier 5, Fighters 5... on any of these, that's a long time to spend on one skill rank. But let's face it -- it was inevitable. It always surprised me that this was even allowed, and they most certainly knew about it for all of these years.
This announcement would have gone much more smoothly had they given *a lot* more advanced warning.
Ironically, I just started ghost training on a long skill, for the first time ever, a few days ago. I can't say I really have a problem with them phasing out ghost training, but if I had a legion of alts as some people on that 90-page thread seem to, I'd certainly be pissed about the lack of a heads up on this.
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The Claw said on 7:00PM 10-14-2008
Wasn't "ghost training" one of the obstacles people always mentioned to CCP implementing a skill training queue system in EVE?
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Seth Vorlar said on 4:05PM 10-15-2008
The Community is F***ed UP
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Mynxee said on 4:20PM 10-15-2008
I guess all the folks training ghost alts for practically free so they can sell them later for big ISK can't do that anymore. Awwwwww. My heart bleeds for them. :rolleyes:
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Questor said on 3:58AM 10-16-2008
A move such as this is very telling.
"Our game isn't fun enough to keep people paying every month, we need a dead-man's switch mechanic to keep the money rolling in."
Oh wait, that's what all MMOs do.
Experience points, Skill points... doesn't matter whether it happens automatically or you have to hit some buttons over and over. It's still as engaging as mashing the equals button on a calculator.
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Feremir_Grey said on 9:41AM 10-19-2008
It's worth pointing out Eve is a game that takes over two decades to fully train your character! Players accepted ghost training as a reasonable compromise allowing the training of lvl 5 skills, perhaps take a break from the game for personal or professional reasons and keep things fresh on your return. Not many players would be willing to maintain a 6 month subscription to train ONE skill -which is what many higher-tier skills require.
This pattern of play represents a significant portion of Eve veterans and by reducing the incentive to resub CCP have shot themselves in the foot. I would hope they come to their senses but I think it's unlikely.
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vonklaude said on 6:19AM 10-21-2008
The way Eve training works 100% of the costs are paid up-front when you put the skill on train with your active account. An end-date is calculated and stored, and that's it. There is no free ride here.
It can be compared to buying a tank of petrol. You put in $30. Then just because you stop a few miles down the road doesn't mean the petrol station guy can come and siphon the unused gas out of your tank.
CCP have at best put deceptive spin on this, and at worst presented bald-faced lies to players. As well as hiding and locking discussion threads on the subject.
The gaming community should be taking CCP to task over this.
-vk
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James Egan said on 6:27PM 10-22-2008
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened..."
I didn't go back to compare, but it seems this caused even more unrest than the carrier nerf. 162 pages. Staggering. It would take less time to read The Empyrean Age novel. Or War and Peace.
I'm still neutral on the issue. I said right off the bat that I'm not really against this change at all, and despite some intelligent arguments I've heard supporting ghost training, nothing's really swayed me. It never bothered me that people were doing this either, in fact I'd just begun to do it myself. Clearly a lot of people viewed ghost training as a perk of the game, that you could take some time off and return to a nice level 5 skill.
This wouldn't have been as bad had they given people more time to adjust to it. My .02 isk. Then again, maybe it would have.
I'm curious though -- is this change something that would make any of you actually quit the game?
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being.earnest said on 8:58AM 10-24-2008
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=160
^^
This is the current thread nearly 5000 posts and counting.
Must amusingly the original thread this article is linked to was closed for whatever reasons... go figure..
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runyn said on 3:51AM 10-25-2008
/plunk x3… the sound of all three of my accounts perma-closing. i also have a friend irl that just closed all 6 of his. i know several people irl that will not be back, because of this issue, who had actually planned to resub, and originally tried out the game because of it.
when added up, the three accounts that i rotated, and occasionally multi-boxed were worth, at minimum, twice what a single account would be worth in 12 months, and i frequently ran all three accounts for months at a time, so they were often worth more. i enjoyed the game immensely, but one of the draws was that i could make some progress while i was unable to play all accounts.
ah, well… i’ll find something else to do with my free time (and money).
i know that some are saying, 'bah! good riddance! ya lousy game-mechanic-exploiter!'
but, seriously, it's a matter of whether i'm willing to continue to pay for the game. and, honestly, if i have to have the other two characters in order to make playing the one toon worth it, and i can't use those characters in a manner that is consistent with the original reason that those characters (accounts) were worth starting (subscribing to), then, no, i'm not willing to continue to pay.
bummer. totally. ya know why? because *this* is the game i've always come back to. *this* is the game that i *would have* always come back to. and, honestly, this is the game that i always told friends and guildies that i *did* come back to. i liked playing others for a bit of variety, but this is where i've returned for the past couple of years, when i'd tell my guild i was taking a break from whatever game we were playing at the time. i liked the game, and i especially liked not having to be paranoid that, if i forgot to put in a GTC for a week after my sub ran out on a character that i was actively developing, i wouldn't end up banging my head on a desk.
in light of the fact that personal injury really isn't my style... y'all have a nice day, and i'll (maybe) see you in another gameworld at some point.
oh, and… no, you can’t have my stuff :).
i should be very interested to know how many accounts CCP lose over this. and here’s something interesting: a lot of these accounts are paid with game time cards, and will not expire immediately… but, in about 3 months, we’ll have a good idea of the true impact. if they credit the ‘need for speed’ initiative for traffic and lag improvements, they’ll be fibbing a bit, methinks ;)
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