The Daily Grind: Item malls in EQ/EQ2?

by Krystalle Voecks Dec 10th 2008 at 8:00AM

Filed under: EverQuest, EverQuest II, Business models, MMO industry, Opinion

Yesterday was a string of shocking announcements, one right after another. But in all the flood, the loudest cry seemed to come from the devoted followers of EverQuest and EverQuest II who saw real-money-transaction item malls suddenly appear in their game with no warning whatsoever. Most of what we've seen has been cosmetic armor and bonus experience potions, although we also saw the "armor" option in EverQuest which is a small box that generates three pieces of level-equivalent armor and one level-equivalent weapon for your character, but no further description is given.

Now that you've had some time to look it over, kick the proverbial tires, and see just exactly what is in the item mall, what do you think about the idea of SOE's adding an item mall into EverQuest and EverQuest II? Is it less about the item mall and more about the fact that it was put in without any warning to the community at all? Or does it simply concern you that this is the first step before going down the slippery slope of having people buying uber gear and weapons versus earning them by playing the game?

Tags: everquest, everquest-2, everquest-ii, real-money-transations, rmt, soe, sony-online-entertainment

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

csavarda said on 8:14AM 12-10-2008

The new direction SOE is taking their games. This falls right in line with the SWG trading card game where they add new content but none of it is included with your subscription fee.

Stivan (eq2) said on 8:24AM 12-10-2008

This is messed up by all means as it really was dropped as a bomb to the community, however it is definitely a logical business solution. I am fine with the marketplace personally as long as it doesn't impede on regular game play. IE.: Being able to buy uber raid gear for a dollar value. As long as SoE remembers that this thing is purely for fluff and doesn't affect the gameplay it will be fine IMO. We can use LoN as an example of something that hasn't really crossed any lines yet.

csavarda said on 8:56AM 12-10-2008

Even if it is all fluff and items that have no effect on gameplay (I wouldn't call the AA and XP potions fluff)... these extras are the types of things that should be included in content patches with subscription games. New armor, decorations, vanity items. Why should ppl have to pay for it twice? You know you aren't going to get any more cool new stuff in patches, right? It will be added to the store/card game/RMT.

Look at NGE, for years the players asked for new structures/vehicles/cool fluff stuff. They told the players that it could be considered when they revamped the architect/engineer/whatever class, but that they didn't have the resources to develop that sort of thing currently. FINALLY, they add new structures that the player base had been asking for, along with some neat new vehicles/spaceships... to the card game as "loot card" rewards. Costs extra money to get any of it.

Browsing the SOE forums is giving me an NGE flashback: Spring the changes on players with absolutely no warning in order to avoid player backlash? Yup. Release a full price expansion shortly before changing the game in a way most people hate? Yup. Post after post of people saying "this sucks, screw you SOE"? Uh huh.

Beau said on 9:45AM 12-10-2008

Oh GOD, with the NGE already!

This is a very simple case of a company experimenting with some new, fun interactions between their player-base and the game.

The NGE wasn't slavery, it was a change made to..get this...a video game.

Jon Merriex said on 12:53PM 12-10-2008

While that may be true (and INSANELY offensive), there similarities still stand. One day the servers went down for maintenance and when they came back online drastic changes had been made with no player input and no advanced warning.

Beau said on 2:43PM 12-10-2008

Yes, I know. I was there. They did change some things, but fixed so many others.

That was what, 3 years ago?

I mean, you can technically draw parallels between the NGE and almost anything...but that is just kind of sad to do.

Beau

Arashikou said on 4:50PM 12-10-2008

I think you may be taking this a little too personally - or rather, I think you may be assuming that people invoking the name of NGE are taking it personally. The reason the NGE is valid is not because it is of personal importance to players who experienced it (of which I do not number, I'm afraid, so I have no first-hand experience) but because it is of historic importance to the study of the MMO genre. I'm not aware of any other high-profile cases where a company made such sweeping changes with absolutely no warning to their players and timed so carefully as to ensure that they had bilked players that would leave due to the changes out of further money. The public outcry may be stale by now, but the fact that it existed then is of historic interest.

The parallels are absolutely valid, especially since we are dealing with the exact same company. (Though I would venture to say they would be valid even if it were two different companies.) Sony has, for the second time, added a feature they knew would be controversial with absolutely no warning and immediately after getting more money out of their players via an expansion pack. The only place the comparison breaks down is that in SWG, the game that people loved and played was totally gone. You couldn't ignore the new features because they had replaced the old ones. Here, you can just ignore the RMT vendors and keep playing EQ and EQ2. But parallels can still be drawn, I think, in regards to how one can expect Sony to behave in these kinds of situations.

Beau said on 5:44PM 12-10-2008

But, here's the deal: the NGE was YEARS ago, and it is basically this:

The company SOE changed one of it's games. A good deal of players didn't like it. Some players think that the company did this in a sneaky way.

This type of thing has been going on for years and years throughout MMO's.

Comparing this sudden appearance of cash shop transactions (although, actually, if you actually do your homework, you would know how much they have been talking about it and mentioning it was in the works ) to the NGE is, again, sad.

That's like bringing up the US government for some of the sneaky stuff it does.

Or bringing up your brother Billy because he lied to you in the third grade.

The NGE, first of all, did not destroy SWG. It lost players to WoW and boredom.

Secondly, if it hurt you that bad, and caused such strife in your life that you need to bring it up not only 3 years later but at any mention of SOE (I am addressing those players that do this, whoever they are) then you need to re-address what you think is important in your life. How are you going to deal with real life disappointments if a video game patch, which actually IMPROVED the game in more ways than NOT, can crush you so that you mention it like some kind of drunk high school football quaterback at every b-b-q?

It's funny that no one pulls out the examples of the incredible things SOE does FOR it's community. I should know, I have talked to so many of them over the last year and know that from the head CM down to the interns they actually are NOT in the business of making people angry.

This all comes down to this: no one cares about the NGE. That was 3 years ago. SOE is trying new and different models for subs and for players to enjoy. Connect it to the NGE, if you'd like.

After all, the mistakes you made 3 years ago mean that you will make them again right?

Beau

Mr Angry said on 8:12PM 12-10-2008

Hi Beau!

The NGE was a turning point in MMO history, very much a reference point for games today.

You've said that people don't make the same mistakes twice, but just yesterday SOE implements a big update to customers with no prior warning, knowing that the fallout would be slightly controversial. And the last time this happened was the NGE?

It's quite hard to follow your points in this regard as I think you've actually given some credence to the NGE comparisons here, rather than dismiss their relevance, if I'm alone here in my summing up, please let me know.

Regardless of 'they want to make us happy' well that's great, but players feel that resources could have been better employed on the game they currently play and were shocked by the sudden announcement which went live, again, just like the NGE.

Different players take different things from their subscription, you might decide to be friends with the CSR staff, others play to roleplay, others for the competitive challenge, bottom line is that if people are the customers here, so what they decide ultimately determine the success of the game, customers just like the upset people here, and on the EQ2 boards, and if they consider the NGE relevant to their argument, it's wholly up to them, as you say these are the people paying.

If poor management decisions have been made, no amount of CSR camaraderie is going to change that, despite the individual's best efforts.

Let it be known that this is part of the service, and could be considered fluff, very much in line with the MT model Smed has promoted, not essential.

I'm sure your attempts to goad an ex SWG player into some sort of angry response might raise some ire, but I don't think your argument is strong enough to get them to post unfortunately.Trust me, I'm a bit of an expert :)

It's good that you attempt to put this into perspective, but it's not really that simple when it comes down to customer satisfaction and players have slowly accepted that SOE were on probation after this landmark blunder, and again find the channel of communication has purposefully gone preceding a major change.

Glad to hear you are making so much good use of your life and never get upset or angry about anything, a true role model for MMO subscribers! I'd bet money you are really Dr. Phil, except he hates MMO's.

Rollins said on 11:01AM 12-10-2008

I would hope (possibly futilely, but still) that this could lead to a drop in subscription fees for one or both of the titles.

But then again, it's SOE. Sigh.

Angel said on 2:00PM 12-10-2008

This word “fluff” keeps coming up and begs to be commented on. “Fluff”, as a term, has been and is being used by SOE staffers in an inappropriate manner. The way it is being used is the same way “just” is often used in combination with terms of reference. The effect is dismissive and derogatory. It indicates something to not be considered as is found in couplings like “she is ‘just’ a woman” or “you don’t know what life is all about, your ‘just’ a kid”.

This is problematic for the player community at large. Using “fluff” the way they are is dismissing a LARGE portion of the player community, namely the RPers, armorers, tailors, and carpenters. They, though not framed as such, make “fluff”, especially the carpenters. For these players “fluff” is a core part of the game! From a crafter’s perspective those armor sets being offered for purchase with real money are in game assets they have lost. Further still, if they were made as quest rewards I certainly would have gone for at least one of the armor sets. As a reward, they are gone.

Instead they reward people who somehow ended up with excess cash IRL, in this economy. Taking into account the demographic of average player (32 in committed relationships with 2.3 children, a mortgage, car payments, college loans, and swiftly becoming unemployed en mass), I just don’t see how it is possible to have “extra” (another dismissive term, I might add) money in the household.

This so-called “fluff” is, to some, not fluff. It is the most important aspect of the game. By dismissing features, and thereby dismissing people’s play styles, SOE is sending a clear message to their customers. This message is “you only matter to us so far as how much money we can get from you.” SOE considers players who do not engage in combat on a regular basis to be, at the most, second class citizens (yes, that means crafters. The little bit of love they have gotten recently is half-assed and conceptually flawed).

For me this is particularly irksome because I, in reality, do not want to play combat classes and I hate crafting. I would rather be a class that has some other useful purpose in game or no other purpose than being able to learn and use a wider range of emotes. Take my dirge for example. Why must bards be combat oriented? Why can’t a bard player chose to make their bard a FULFF toon that never goes adventuring but gains level purely as an entertainer? (yes, I played pre NGE SWG as an entertainer AND LOVED IT!)

I have to say I am not too happy with the way they snuck this in. It is not dishonest, it is not lying. It is definitely backhanded and speaks of a secret agenda that is not up for community review. The way this was instituted is no different than a stealth-patch that reconfigures the way classes work without testing.

It reminds me of experiences I had in CoH going from beta to live (there was a stealth patch that reduced one of the classes combat effectiveness by 33% without compensation in it’s defensive capabilities) or, in SWG, when I surrendered abilities to retrain in something else the day before the Trials of Obi Wan expansion was launched, which instituted NGE. This resulted in a complete reconfiguration of my class into something I NEVER would have played and being combat level 55 instead of combat level 80 (if I had warning I would not have surrendered the skills so I could have retained combat viability immediately after the change) with no real choice of the path I was going to take... I simply got screwed.

This also makes me think about what we potentially didn’t get in this poorly designed expansion. What would the expansion have been like if they had the people who developed this feature working on the expansion? What did we miss out on because these staffers were reassigned to this project?

Again, as stated in my previous post, to institute equipment with stats for sale by SOE using real cash to purchase for in game use completely subverts everything this MMORPG was initially built around (anyone remember shopping in Runnyeye?! GOOD TIMES that was!). This cuts into several crafting classes as well as meaningful adventuring experiences. And, if what is being said about stat armor on the EQ1 version of the game is correct, you can bet your ass it is coming to EQ2. That WILL cause me to close my account... permanently.

Regretfully the one other game I would play right now, which has also been changed to something completely different, in part, by SOE to the point of not being really all that fun, is SWG. The problem is the people I would want to play another MMORPG with, my guild, which I love, probably wouldn’t leave with me for dislike of change. Not that I can blame them for that. EQ2 has the most mature and amicable player base I have ever encountered in an MMORPG (see my résumé that mentions having played nearly 40 MMORPGs)

For me it is not “rage quitting”, which is an awesome term btw! It is being fed up with the typical MMORPG that does not allow for me to indulge in what I want. I have always had a problem with the idea that almost every avatar you see is an adventurer, is trying to be the top number 1 special player, is a “hero”. What is that saying? “when everybody is special (a hero) nobody is special (a hero).”

I just want to contribute to the server community in a meaningfully coded way without having to fight or craft.

For me this gets back to the personal point that it is time for me to develop a MMORPG i want to play because I KNOW there are thousands, possibly millions, of people out there who want the same things I want: an offering of open sandboxy play style options ranging through dedicated adventurers, explorers, socializes, and killers.

EQ2 is changing. If this change speaks of where it is headed I’m very unhappy with what it is becoming. Earful or not, SOE has displayed their disregard for player opinion on this new feature by implementing it without warning. They have displayed a lack of care on the topic.

Skypp said on 2:13PM 12-10-2008

Yeah this is all stuff that should be given free for the subscription price. The reason its not is this is Free-realms beta. Enjoy your continuing beta experience SOE subscribers.

"it'll be different with EQ2" they all said. "They won't treat us like they did with EQ1, its a different team!"

Well there ya go buddy. Enjoy yourself.

Beau said on 2:49PM 12-10-2008

Skypp, you act as though if someone IS actually enjoying themselves that somehow they WON'T enjoy themselves.

Which is it?

If they LIKE the game, they will play it an enjoy it.

If they are stupid enough to believe in some kind of conspiracy theory about, again I remind you, a VIDEOGAME, then they should probably just get out of the house.

And who exactly do you think said those things?

Maybe it was you.

Did SOE hurt you? Are you ok?

Beau

csavarda said on 4:53PM 12-10-2008

Angel and Skypp get it. They are making their players pay for content twice.

Beau said on 5:47PM 12-10-2008

They are MAKING them?

Oh. My. God.

I knew that was coming.

Ok, this has just become sad. lol

Beau

Slacker said on 6:46PM 12-10-2008

Yes, they are making them. I know there is no gun to anyone's head but if you believe that is the only way someone can be forced into doing something... Well let's just say you have a bit to learn.

If people want to enjoy the content of these games that every other game gives to it's customers as part of the purchase price of the game. They must pay for it again.

So to get the same level of use out of this product they pay twice.
Or they can pay once, not get the content and get a lesser game. Shrug, I quit EQ and EQ2 years ago so it doesn't bother me directly. I just worry that the developers of the games I do play will try this crud.

If they want micro transactions then they need to stop charging a monthly fee, it is one or the other. As long as we pay every month we expect to get our content as part of that price.

But this is Sony, we should know better with them. Look on the bright side, there are LOTs of other games out there and most do not have the SOE blight on them.

Sean said on 8:15PM 12-10-2008

Or...

One could be satisfied with the items they've earned and character's they've developed during the course of the game and not spite people who for lack of time or opportunity cost choose to experience the game in a different fashion.

None of this has any direct impact on your experience of playing should you not choose to participate. It might effect how feel about the game, the relative value you now give certain items, or how you judge those who do participate. Ultimately, these are epistemic problems, problems that exist in your mind and not in the game itself.

csavarda said on 7:28AM 12-11-2008

It DOES have direct impact on your game experience even if you choose to not partake in the RMT/SC side of things. Think of it this way, if you don't shell out the extra cash, it will affect you even more. Because you are denied access to many new and fun aspects of the game. You are getting less content than the people who do fork over the $$$$.

They can call it "extra" and "fluff" content all they want, but the fact of the matter is that these are things that were typically included in content patches for free. Now the player base is expected to pay extra if they want access to these new things the developers have added to the game.

Matt said on 1:16PM 12-11-2008

Are they going to stop releasing updates and expansions? Are they going to stop doing 'free' content (meaning without charging you extra)? Would it have been better for them to have added this content into an extra "adventure pack" instead?