Anti-Aliased: You don't need PvP to be successful, honest

by Seraphina Brennan Apr 15th 2009 at 4:30PM

Filed under: Culture, Economy, Game mechanics, PvP, Opinion, Anti-Aliased

Player vs. player combat has always been a double-edged sword, in my opinion. While it has the ability to be an amazing part of a game, I find that it usually falls flat thanks to a few loudmouthed jerks and people who exploit their way to "fame." Please note the use of fame in quotation marks, as fame through PvP isn't exactly fame as we understand it by dictionary definition. It is something far less desirable.

So, I knew my stance on the issue. I like well executed PvP, but I don't like PvP in general. But I wanted your opinion, readers of Massively, and I got it thanks to a spot on The Daily Grind this week. What resulted from that story was a very interesting discussion on the place of PvP in MMOs, and if PvP is really the staple we think it is as a community.

First of all, no, you do not need PvP in your game

If you're making an MMO, you don't need to have PvP included in your package. If your game design isn't targeting people who would be apt to PvP, then why waste precious development time and resources into putting it in at launch? This is doubly true for games that may consider tacking PvP on to their game so they can shut the forum whiners up. If PvP really ranks that low on your development list, then don't feel pressured to put it in.

The market of MMOs suffers right now because every developer feels that they have to have every feature that every other game does. Every game has to have quests, every game has to have PvP, every game has to have huge expanses, every game has to have color-coded items that drop off of every mob, right? No, that's silly, but yet that's what we do. We spend millions of dollars making sure that one game has everything kinda there instead of making sure that one game has a few things that are really there. Why be a jack-of-all-trades when you can be a master of a few?

"We spend millions of dollars making sure that one game has everything kinda there instead of making sure that one game has a few things that are really there."

Even more interesting, ever notice how PvP almost always feels "tacked on?" Certainly a few games avoid this feeling, like Darkfall, Lineage II, EVE Online, and Warhammer Online, but the others never truly merge PvP with the core game design. Even the great Warcraft has this feeling happen, especially on the PvP servers when you're getting your face floored by a level 80 while you're trying to level.

Proof is in the pudding, or, at least, in Final Fantasy XI

FFXI is a game many people loathe for some odd reasons, yet is one of the best examples for this case of not needing PvP. It is a successful game, catering to over 500,000 people for 6 years, and completely avoided PvP as we know it at launch. In the beginning, there was not player vs. player combat where people smacked each other in the face, with the game instead relying on the "conquest" system where players could take control of zones for their country by beating up monsters.

Later, XI added Ballista and Brenner, two "conflict" games that allowed players to smash each other's face in while searching for skulls in the dirt to throw into rooks. It was like rugby or soccer, except with swords and summons. Still, the game never really caught on with XI's mainly PvE crowd, and now sits in the game relatively quietly.

But XI's conquest system brings up another point -- a better point, if you ask me. A point very worthy of discussion.

Next Page: We need PvP conflict, not combat>>

Tags: all-points-bulletin, anti-aliased, ccp, conflict, darkfall, darkfall-online, eve, eve-online, featured, ffxi, final-fantasy-xi, game-design, joystiqfeatures, l2, lineage-2, mythic, mythic-entertainment, ncsoft, opinion, player-conflict, player-vs-player, player-vs-player-combat, pve, pvp, social-conflict, square-enix, war, warhammer-online

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Mike Burtner said on 6:44PM 4-15-2009

I think PvP is the most engaging and makes the most compelling gameplay when it has an over-arching purpose behind it, such as in RvR territorial wars, or to defend a player or player-group asset. People think game-life is so radically different from "real" life, but isn't it really the cause that gets people excited as much as the fight? Most of us don't respect or adulate those who fight others for no reason at all, or true 'pirates' (not the romantic image). I think a successful game creates dramatic reasons and situations for combat to mean something. I realize, too, that my qualifications mean nothing to a huge number of people who just want to feel the thrill of humiliating and ending the game- life of another person, however temporarily. I'll admit that I am a role-player at heart, who prefers to talk about game objectives rather than mechanics and math-based strategies. The idea of being "bigger" than someone and, therefore, better, just doesn't make sense to me. There's always someone bigger, or with more time / money to spend on leveling a character. But inspiring people to join and fulfill a common mission against other like-minded defenders requires tactics, passion and group social dynamics, something that buying gold and grinding for months won't help.

I don't think aggression or violence are "necessary" in real life. But as long as we have reasons like limited land, food or other commodity resources and economic disparity, violence is inevitable. I like the idea of danger in my game but being able to map out where and when it will occur by reading the situation, rather than just avoiding a particular door or server.

Now, can you tell I am an EVE player?

Skypp said on 8:38PM 4-15-2009

I think by eliminating the PVP aspect of an MMO, you would save countless man hours on balancing and rebalancing characters after any major game change. When there is not a PVP component you don't have to worry about such things.

Dethgar said on 11:40PM 4-15-2009

Obviously you've never played a game balanced for PvE. PvE is one of the biggest hurdles in balancing, as you need to make sure every class is needed and useful, otherwise there will be plenty of players hung out to dry. Without Tanks, CC, DPS, and Healers being on par with one another a lot of classes may end up being completely useless(see Druids from WoW's launch).

Plastic Rat said on 4:11AM 4-16-2009

"I find that it usually falls flat thanks to a few loudmouthed jerks and people who exploit their way to "fame.""

For me, this. I'm actually all fine with competition and challenge. I loved deatmatch style FPS games. Ultimately I like a more cerebral FPS, and got addicted to Battlefield 1942 when it came out over stuff like Quake and Counterstrike. Still.

The thing I find turns me off of PvP in MMOs at least and for that matter lately with FPSs is the type of player it attracts. Basically the loudmouthed jerk and the guy who will exploit and doesn't seem to see the problem with it. Generally I've put it down to these people trying to compensate for serious shortcomings in their personal lives, but that still doesn't make the game fun for me.

So I'd rather have a game that specifically doesn't have PvP because I know the player base will likely be more mature and well adjusted.

Candy said on 10:31PM 4-16-2009

PvP doesn't belong in most of these games. Characters balanced for PVE always get trashed by PVP re-balancing. It is a constant tug of war between the two types of gaming.

For games designed to PVP the forum whiners hate them because they suck on a level playing field, so they want to run around being overpowered in some game with tacked on PVP and feel like testosterone man (teenage boy using mommy's credit card) and ruin it for everyone else.

In PVP optional games, you get forum whiners whining because most of the thoughtful mature population wish PVP would just disappear and quit wrecking the PVE game balance for PVP reasons. SO there aren't enough players doing PVP and the developers spend more and more time trying to make PVP more popular and dump all over their core demographic making most of the population madder and madder. Lord of the Rings Online! I am looking at you. Though there are many examples..