PAX 2009: Massively interviews BioWare and LucasArts on SWTOR part 2
by Kyle Horner 
Sep 7th 2009 at 12:00PM
Filed under: New titles, Massively Interviews, Star Wars: The Old Republic
What were some of the inherent challenges in getting the multiplayer dialog system to work in a natural way?
Blaine: Well first of all I just want to clarify that the system is not finalized yet. But in terms of the intent behind it, basically when we play the game now and when you see the demo live or online, what we've kind of discovered is this really great dynamic between the players.
When you're confronted with a key decision like: Do we kill or save the captain of this particular ship? It becomes a very competitive mini-game in-and-of itself. You might say, "Jake, dude, I wanna kill him!" and he's like, "No we're gonna save him!" and you don't know what your teammate's gonna do next! Especially right now when we're playing right next to each other, but if you've got your Ventrilo on and you guys are duking it out trying to figure out what's gonna happen in this situation, it becomes a really fun meta-game.
So if Bob is a Sith Warrior and he's doing the mission with the captain and his friend Abe is playing a Bounty Hunter, is the decision to kill the captain ultimately up to Bob, or can his friend intervene?
Jake: I think some of that depends on you guys and how you wanna play it out. If you're coordinating and you're on the same page, then you guys'll probably be able to move towards the same decision. Like Blaine said, the system is totally under development as we speak and there's so many edge cases of weird scenarios that we're working through. The main thing for people to understand is our goal is to make it fun, awesome, balanced and prevent any sort of griefing or dissatisfaction. Those are the things that we're working towards right now.
What we see right now is that it's fun to just participate in a conversation -- that's new, that's unique. We wanna take that to the next level and for it to be fully awesome when it comes out.
Blaine: So the biggest thing there is the intent behind it, as Jake was saying, is to provide a better mechanic for storytelling and it goes back to your earlier question about grouping. So we had to sorta ask ourselves. "How do we deal with grouping and storytelling?" and we just sorta said, "Why not allow everyone who's in the group to participate in the conversation?" so that's what we're working on.
Star Wars is a universe that has a plethora of races, humans obviously being the only one we've seen fully voiced so far, but are we going to be playing and hearing alien races?
Blaine: We have let slip that there will be playable alien species -- we haven't talked about the details on that yet.
The other thing I'll just point out is the example that we have so far if you watch the gameplay footage is: We have the initial conversation with the Bounty Hunter, it's the first conversation we see as a Bounty Hunter in the game, you'll actually see a Nikto named Jory speaking in his native tongue as it were, in the demo. So that's the little tidbit for those that watch closely.
All MMO zones get more fantastical as you progress, but Star Wars offers some especially unique locations. Will SWTOR's zones emphasis this advantage?
Jake: Yeah, we're trying to make everything unique and true to Star Wars as possible. So I think you'll see our environments reflect that. Second to that -- whether their grandiose at a low level or not -- in our Sith Warrior demo you're on a the desert work of Korriban, however it's not just an open plain. It's amazing academy shots and ships flying in and crazy large creatures running around. So we're certainly trying to push that Star Wars art and feel. We want you to always feel heroic and in the distinct world of TOR. But yeah you'll see a lot of native Star Wars elements as time goes on, sure.
Blaine: It's one of the beauties of the license, as you're pointing out. We'd be foolish not to take advantage of that.
We're sure you've seen this rumor floating around, so we've got to ask. What are your thoughts on player housing? Do you think it's worth pursuing at an MMO's launch or later down the line?
Jake: We have seen the rumor on that, and all I'll say is that is a rumor. Player housing is an interesting feature in an MMO, but we haven't talked at all about that. That's been just pure speculation. We do have player housing in Star Wars Galaxies, so I think we've seen how popular that can be for a number of people, but that has nothing to do with SWTOR. That's just truly my experience on galaxies.
I do get what you're asking there about the passion players have for it. I have a daughter who's a huge Webkinz player and she has houses and rooms and things -- I totally get that. But as far as TOR goes, we've talked nothing about that.
Tabletop gaming has been one of the many avenues of ways to explore the Star Wars settings. So will you be facilitating SWTOR roleplayers in any way?
Jake: Without a doubt Star Wars itself, at the highest level, would be nothing without its fans. A number of these fans celebrate the IP with their own twist on it -- showing their love. You see a lot of people in costumes here. We have the 501st, which is an organization that goes around the world for charity dressing up at events and we see that fall into almost all of our Star Wars games. So do I anticipate that there will be roleplayers in our game? Absolutely. People love that, they want to assume a role in the Star Wars world and we're better for it. So I think that we will absolutely see it and we'll be excited to have them.
Blaine: From a BioWare perspective, obviously traditionally- hopefully known for our RPGs.
Neverwinter Nights!
Blaine: Yeah yeah! Those are our people, that's who we want to cater to. I think that bringing RPG into the MMO space for the first time is a great opportunity and that it allows us to hopefully facilitate that to an even greater degree than what's come in the past.
There's a lot of emphasis on each class having its own story and experience. Will there be a binary story path for each class or something more nuanced and dependant on your myriad choices?
Blaine: So I think there's two things we can talk about there. So one, obviously you can expect each one of those class storylines to be similar to what you've seen in Knights of the Old Republic or traditional BioWare storytelling. Obviously we like to put twists into those storylines, as people know. We like to allow choices that do have impact on the story in some fashion, and so that certainly carries through into our game.
So part two of that would be that within our world there's an overarching story, which sort of ties all of the classes together. Those are quests that when you participate in those they're not dependant on your class. Then you have the class quests and those are again very specific to what you're doing, but again people could potentially have a part in that story as well. So there's multiple threads and ways that the story is told.
Thanks for your time Blaine and Jake!
Blaine: Well first of all I just want to clarify that the system is not finalized yet. But in terms of the intent behind it, basically when we play the game now and when you see the demo live or online, what we've kind of discovered is this really great dynamic between the players.
When you're confronted with a key decision like: Do we kill or save the captain of this particular ship? It becomes a very competitive mini-game in-and-of itself. You might say, "Jake, dude, I wanna kill him!" and he's like, "No we're gonna save him!" and you don't know what your teammate's gonna do next! Especially right now when we're playing right next to each other, but if you've got your Ventrilo on and you guys are duking it out trying to figure out what's gonna happen in this situation, it becomes a really fun meta-game.
So if Bob is a Sith Warrior and he's doing the mission with the captain and his friend Abe is playing a Bounty Hunter, is the decision to kill the captain ultimately up to Bob, or can his friend intervene?
Jake: I think some of that depends on you guys and how you wanna play it out. If you're coordinating and you're on the same page, then you guys'll probably be able to move towards the same decision. Like Blaine said, the system is totally under development as we speak and there's so many edge cases of weird scenarios that we're working through. The main thing for people to understand is our goal is to make it fun, awesome, balanced and prevent any sort of griefing or dissatisfaction. Those are the things that we're working towards right now.
What we see right now is that it's fun to just participate in a conversation -- that's new, that's unique. We wanna take that to the next level and for it to be fully awesome when it comes out.
Blaine: So the biggest thing there is the intent behind it, as Jake was saying, is to provide a better mechanic for storytelling and it goes back to your earlier question about grouping. So we had to sorta ask ourselves. "How do we deal with grouping and storytelling?" and we just sorta said, "Why not allow everyone who's in the group to participate in the conversation?" so that's what we're working on.
Star Wars is a universe that has a plethora of races, humans obviously being the only one we've seen fully voiced so far, but are we going to be playing and hearing alien races?
Blaine: We have let slip that there will be playable alien species -- we haven't talked about the details on that yet.
The other thing I'll just point out is the example that we have so far if you watch the gameplay footage is: We have the initial conversation with the Bounty Hunter, it's the first conversation we see as a Bounty Hunter in the game, you'll actually see a Nikto named Jory speaking in his native tongue as it were, in the demo. So that's the little tidbit for those that watch closely.
Jake: Yeah, we're trying to make everything unique and true to Star Wars as possible. So I think you'll see our environments reflect that. Second to that -- whether their grandiose at a low level or not -- in our Sith Warrior demo you're on a the desert work of Korriban, however it's not just an open plain. It's amazing academy shots and ships flying in and crazy large creatures running around. So we're certainly trying to push that Star Wars art and feel. We want you to always feel heroic and in the distinct world of TOR. But yeah you'll see a lot of native Star Wars elements as time goes on, sure.
Blaine: It's one of the beauties of the license, as you're pointing out. We'd be foolish not to take advantage of that.
We're sure you've seen this rumor floating around, so we've got to ask. What are your thoughts on player housing? Do you think it's worth pursuing at an MMO's launch or later down the line?
Jake: We have seen the rumor on that, and all I'll say is that is a rumor. Player housing is an interesting feature in an MMO, but we haven't talked at all about that. That's been just pure speculation. We do have player housing in Star Wars Galaxies, so I think we've seen how popular that can be for a number of people, but that has nothing to do with SWTOR. That's just truly my experience on galaxies.
I do get what you're asking there about the passion players have for it. I have a daughter who's a huge Webkinz player and she has houses and rooms and things -- I totally get that. But as far as TOR goes, we've talked nothing about that.
Tabletop gaming has been one of the many avenues of ways to explore the Star Wars settings. So will you be facilitating SWTOR roleplayers in any way?
Jake: Without a doubt Star Wars itself, at the highest level, would be nothing without its fans. A number of these fans celebrate the IP with their own twist on it -- showing their love. You see a lot of people in costumes here. We have the 501st, which is an organization that goes around the world for charity dressing up at events and we see that fall into almost all of our Star Wars games. So do I anticipate that there will be roleplayers in our game? Absolutely. People love that, they want to assume a role in the Star Wars world and we're better for it. So I think that we will absolutely see it and we'll be excited to have them.
Blaine: From a BioWare perspective, obviously traditionally- hopefully known for our RPGs.
Neverwinter Nights!
Blaine: Yeah yeah! Those are our people, that's who we want to cater to. I think that bringing RPG into the MMO space for the first time is a great opportunity and that it allows us to hopefully facilitate that to an even greater degree than what's come in the past.
There's a lot of emphasis on each class having its own story and experience. Will there be a binary story path for each class or something more nuanced and dependant on your myriad choices?
Blaine: So I think there's two things we can talk about there. So one, obviously you can expect each one of those class storylines to be similar to what you've seen in Knights of the Old Republic or traditional BioWare storytelling. Obviously we like to put twists into those storylines, as people know. We like to allow choices that do have impact on the story in some fashion, and so that certainly carries through into our game.
So part two of that would be that within our world there's an overarching story, which sort of ties all of the classes together. Those are quests that when you participate in those they're not dependant on your class. Then you have the class quests and those are again very specific to what you're doing, but again people could potentially have a part in that story as well. So there's multiple threads and ways that the story is told.
Thanks for your time Blaine and Jake!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tyler said on 3:01PM 9-07-2009
Still, no one has asked the ONE thing i want asked: what kind of endgame content can we expect? I think that is the ONE thing that will make or break this game.
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Chris said on 3:30PM 9-07-2009
Isn't that the one thing that makes or breaks every MMO?
slimj091 said on 10:14AM 9-10-2009
"Still, no one has asked the ONE thing i want asked: what kind of endgame content can we expect? I think that is the ONE thing that will make or break this game."
what good is asking a question when you know they don't have an answer, or can answer yet. more than likely as with most interviews the interviewie's screened the questions kyle submitted to them, and sent him back a list with the questions they would be able to answer.
a question for you tho. when was it that blizzard released info on Molten Core, and Onyxia's lair? i guarantee you it wasn't just a few months after WoW was announced to the public.
i expect we'll see info on end-game content when we usually do with MMO's in development. mid-way through closed beta testing. and considering that there is not even a shady rumor that they are in alpha yet you can bet it will be a while before end game content is discussed to the public.
Joey_the_mad26 said on 3:22PM 9-07-2009
I do not agree that End Game is the make or break aspect of this title. Ugh, I hate to use this reference, but when WoW launched their end game was pretty broken, and look where they ended up. I think End Game is more important to a PvP game, and thank God that TOR is 'not' a PvP game, at least not a complete PvP game masqurading as a PvE title like WAR.
Sadly, I too do not feel they addressed some important questions. Like, in grouping, how many players can be in a grp? Will it be like KOTOR and be just three people, or will it be more in tune with other MMOs? I wasn't at PAX, and I have not read all the online interviews, so maybe someone asked that question.
Also, I have to say I'm not thrilled that someone else could decide how one of the flashpoint missions go. I mean, if you're lucky to have a friend with you, no worries, since you can decide on Vent which way to go. But, if it's like a PUG, you might get a d-bag who decides to kill someone important because it's 'funny' to him or her. Hmm...I trust in Bioware, but that's something that kinda is worrying me.
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eliwood98 said on 4:16PM 9-07-2009
I know that it doesnt make or break the game, but to me, the rest of the game is looking solid, so I believe we need to address this.
Dart Matsuraki said on 11:54AM 9-08-2009
What some people need to understand is that this game is far from being done. If they're not talking about something, it means it's not ready to be talked about.
Have some patience and I'm sure we'll have our answers soon enough.
Archipelagos said on 3:33PM 9-07-2009
"All MMO zones get more fantastical as you progress" Eh? Any chance someone could explain what he means by that exactly, I'm having a dim moment.
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CCon99 said on 3:35PM 9-07-2009
I would still like to know how big the group sizes are going to be. Everything I've seen so far makes me believe that the game is only going to have 2 person teams or when solo you'll have your NPC "pet".
I hope that's not the case, because that would just be a waste of an MMORPG, when they could have just created KotOR 3 with Co-op play. Hopefully there will be options to play this game with groups in the 4-8 person range as well.
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Redwense said on 4:54PM 9-07-2009
They never talked about housing AT ALL? It was never, ever, part of their plans? Something about it not being what TOR is "all about"?
Bummer. This, to me, implies a LOT of things.
It would seem that BioWare is too caught up in this "HEROIC!" business. Becoming LIKE a character in the movies. Fulfilling dreams of playing as a "Darth Vader" or a "Boba Fett". Paradoxically, they're trying to get it across that you have your very own personal experience and that your story is unique because of your choices along the way.
It's definitely a selling point for many fans, but I personally don't believe that I'll be feeling any more special than the thousandth player to become the "greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy". Or the hundredth player to kill the captain.
Oh, and did I have the choice to NOT become a part of the Great Hunt? How is it a "personal experience" if they intend for all bounty hunters to be Boba Fett, and all smugglers to be Han Solo? Just how linear can the game get from the very beginning?
And how many times have I heard them brag about it being the "first fully-voiced MMO"? Yes, it's new. And yes, it's a feat. But I wanted to become my own character in the galaxy, not "fill the shoes" of a character who has his or her own voice, accent, and personality already given to them. NPC voice-overs are fine, definitely, but there's a reason why some RPGs don't give a voice to the player character.
... Wait a second, what does being fully-voiced have anything to do with the quality, depth, and longevity of the core game play anyway?
"Filling the shoes" is what it all seems to be about now. And I was really, really, REALLY disappointed when it was mentioned that one can play TOR as if it were KOTOR III. Yes, we did fill the shoes of two important characters in the Old Republic (and we do fill in the shoes of characters like Shepard in Mass Effect), but KOTOR I and II are NOT MMORPGs.
It was mentioned in the interview about the players feeling heroic from "beginning to end". I choked there. They intended for TOR to END as if it were a single-player RPG?
It's as if they just confirmed that TOR would be KOTOR III, but with monthly fees and a multi-player component that is OPTIONAL. I was most afraid of this. Will other players and the player-run economy even matter in your "personal experience" at all? Or will it be purely a single-player experience?
Let's face it: being affected by other players directly and indirectly and becoming immersed in the web of player experiences, unconsciously or not, is what makes an MMO an MMO, dynamic as they are. The fact that it's an option to play the game as if it were a single-player BioWare RPG makes me question the necessity of a monthly fee and the toting of TOR as if it were were truly an MMORPG. The focus on bringing in the single-player elements of their previous RPGs may not be the healthiest thing for TOR to succeed as a genre that is meant to be shaped by thousands of players online.
However, I'm starting to believe that they're developing TOR as a "modular" KOTOR, in which the developers and writers can play around with the story and have thousands of players become a part of that story, politics and economics all considered. This actually isn't a bad thing, and maybe there's a lot of potential there to grow as, primarily, an MMORPG. (Bad memories of The Matrix Online still haunt me though.)
But I do still want to become my own character with my own motivations and ideals. I want to live in the Old Republic at my own pace and choose my own paths, all as a part of a living, breathing community full of unique individuals with their own aspirations in the galaxy. Will a player Jedi ever fall to the Dark Side in this game?
Just sharing my thoughts. I'm aware that I'm part of a minority, and that it's foolish to be talking about all this, since TOR was never meant to be a sandbox MMO from the beginning, but I used to have such big dreams and hopes about the game. Maybe it was wrong to hope for something like a spiritual successor to SWG. (Most definitely improved, of course.)
I will still be playing it though, damn it BioWare.
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Entice said on 6:00PM 9-07-2009
Good post.
Bioware doesn't seem like it's figured out how to compromise between the story and the MMO aspect yet. Playing a single player game with co-op support and a thousand other "heroic" characters running around, minding their own thing, doesn't seem to be the best way to go.
I'll buy it for the single player experience but it depends what MMO features Bioware can pull off to see how long I keep the subscription.
Syntax said on 11:55AM 9-08-2009
I'll second it. Good post.
This interview set off a few warning bells but nothing to completely destroy my tentative enthusiam, just give it a nice reality check, though.
I'm curious to know if we'll be given the option to NOT participate in this grandiose story they have planned out and instead do our own thing in The Old Republic. Or are we going to be funneled down the narrow corridor?
X3HaloEd said on 1:41PM 9-17-2009
"They never talked about housing AT ALL? It was never, ever, part of their plans? Something about it not being what TOR is "all about"?"
I understood their statement to mean that they have not announced anything about player housing- whether it will be in the game or not.
Anjohl said on 5:04PM 9-07-2009
NO! God damned non-Lightsaber swords!!! LOOK at those clone troopers using metal swords...AAAAAARRRGGGGHHH!!! I am SICK of Bioware putting metal swords in their games to justify the eventual progression to Jedi. Stupid design choice.
I give TOR 3 years.
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CCon99 said on 5:18PM 9-07-2009
It doesn't mean you'll start out with swords if you chose Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior. The troopers (they're not clones in that era BTW) in the pic fighting the Sith are NPC's who also have rifles on their back. NPC's probably pull those swords when a player comes into melee combat with them, most likely so it doesn't look retarded having a tropper shooting it's rifle at you in point blank range, while you're hitting them with a melee weapon.
Anjohl said on 6:14PM 9-07-2009
But it's completely lore-breaking, looks silly, and makes the Bioware games look like a fantasy D&D game with a skin on it.
In the films, lightsaber-wielding jedi fought troopers with blasters all the time. It's just lazy programming on Biowares part, and means that there will be PLAYERS running around with metal non-Lightsaber swords as well. Pass.
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CCon99 said on 6:47PM 9-07-2009
How is it lore breaking? Go back and watch the movies, almost all of Jabba's henchmen used melee weapons, so did the Sandpeople. Even some Stormtroopers were seen with melee weapons like seen at the below link.
http://www.tk899.com/whitearmor/images/Dewback03a.jpg
That's just the evidence from the movies, not to mention the fact that this game will take place almost 5 thousand years before Episode 1 and that lore hasn't been written yet.
Anjohl said on 8:42PM 9-07-2009
Bah. If Bioware stuck to having indigenous populations such as Jabbas's court using their middle-eastern inspired weapons, I would be fine. What Bioware have done is taken Neverwinter Nights, changed the bow and arrows to blasters, and called it Star Wars.
Mass Effect was a better example of how to do a Sci-fi RPG, since it had very little (if any) melee weapons.
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Ingrod said on 10:54PM 9-07-2009
KOTOR is based in Star Wars Expanded Universe lore, EU have a strong presence of metal and technologicaly enhanced melee weapons, swords using cortosis metal (a imaginated material capable to stop a lightsaber hit) are frecuent.
Bioware have demostrated his capacity for create a sci-fi game without melee weapons, but Star Wars lore have a strong presence of melee weapons and primitive alien cultures using these weapong, axes, vibro axes, swords, and mainly lighsabers, melee weapons is a "must have" in any EU Star Wars lore based product.
Lasers can do nothing against a Jedi, but if a Jedi attacks with an melee weapon how is an lightsaber and you own laser is incapable of doing nothing, perhaps you have an oportunity using a cortosis or a vibro sword.
Star Wars is not "da future of this real world", is an imaginary galaxy where starships sound in the space vacum and the force exists but not The Earth but yes the humans. Mass Effect is an more realistic science fiction, how somebody said "Star Wars is more about fiction than science"
And KOTOR games never using midichlorians for explain the force and nobody blame that how "lore breaking" xD
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Mr Angry said on 3:54AM 9-08-2009
The more I read, the more this game really appears to have taken the same design docs as SWG NGE and done it again in cartoon format...
I'm disappointed that there wasn't mention of raiding or group sizes, this was overlooked and I'd expect the guys here to push for an answer, not to be thrown off by vague answers, as was the case with the group question.
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drjones said on 12:16PM 9-08-2009
Hmm some people seem to think unless they have a signed document saying 'we will not do this 5876 point list of stupid game breaking things:.." then that means they will. I would take a chill pill and not think about the game till it goes gold if you suffer from this issue.
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