GDC10: A chat with Cryptic's Bill Roper and Craig Zinkievich
by Justin Olivetti 
Mar 11th 2010 at 5:30PM
Filed under: Events, real-world, Star Trek Online, Champions Online
As two of the most public figures at Cryptic Studios, Bill Roper (Champions Online) and Craig Zinkievich (Star Trek Online) are typically at the forefront of controversy, adulation and speculation. At GDC 2010, Massively sat down with the pair to discuss what it's like working for Cryptic, how they deal with the ups and downs of being game developers, and the pressure of handling the future of two hot MMORPG franchises.
Massively: How do the Champions and STO teams collaborate between each other?
Bill Roper: I think it's really good the way the company interacts back and forth -- "Hey, this worked for us, you guys should do that too." "This totally didn't work for us, don't do that, do something different."
Craig Zinkievich: "Hey, you know, about three-and-a-half weeks after launch, don't have a free 90-day promo! Don't do that! That didn't work well!" [Laughs]
Massively: Player response to patches and updates has been mixed. What have you learned from the past and what are you taking into the future?
Bill: That was a big thing we learned, that players were fine with getting smaller things more quickly. We followed the more traditional model with Champions, which was making the next "big thing." Players would have been a lot happier if we would have said, "Here's a cool thing that's an hour of gameplay that's really themed and really fun, and you'll be getting something like that every three weeks" instead of waiting for the waterfall to happen.
Craig: And it's really just engaging with the community a lot more. Figuring out what's very important to them and jumping on it as soon as possible. That's the cool thing about developing a MMO, it's no longer a team of 35-40 developers working on it, it's everybody -- it's the entire community driving this project.
Massively: A lot of commenters on this site are very harsh on Cryptic. What are some of the things you wish people could see that you guys are doing in your studio that would make people change their minds about Cryptic?
Bill: You have to develop a thicker skin when you go on the forums. A lot of people who post are like, "I'm going to be totally vocal and outrageous!" Instead of going "I wish you guys would do that," they go, "I can't believe they're slaughtering babies and eating them there because they're all evil!" I think the thing that disappoints me is this perception that we sit around and purposefully try to come up with something to screw our players.
Craig: It's the weekly "slap in the face and throw you under the bus!"
Bill: We have bets when news goes up, how many posts in it'll be before someone says "slap in the face" or "throw under the bus" or "from Day One."
When we sit around, we're literally saying, "What's going to make the game a better experience? What are we going to try to address that players want?" We're just trying to make the best game we can make.
Craig: The thing that bugs me, the thing I love about Cryptic is that we're just guys. We're just making video games that we want to make. Everybody on the dev team loves it with a passion, wants to make it the best game possible. Part of the reason why we work at Cryptic is that we have a hard time putting a project down, we're always wanting to make it better. And any sort of vision where we're these evil business people trying to milk the last penny, when in fact, maybe we're crappy business people, but we just really love doing what we're doing. That's the thing we wish we could get out more. Every once in a while we make mistakes, but it would be worse if we were those evil business people who didn't care. Because when we make that mistake, we feel bad about it, it goes through the dev team: "What were we doing?"
Bill: It is something that's so close to us. One time when we were working on something for Revelation, someone had posted something in our forums that said, "You haven't posted on this thread for five days! You're probably on a beach somewhere, rolling around in money!" People are almost fatalistic, they expect the worst -- "You must've done this for a reason!" Making games is really hard to make and maintain, and you're dealing with a vastly disparate playerbase. On every issue, you have people come down on both sides of it.
Apparently I have a lot of [money], because my favorite new moniker I've gotten on the forums is "Dollar Bill" because all I do is sit around and figure out how to milk cash from our players. I used to wear pants made of money and burned them every night.
If a game comes out and it's not what the players believed it was going to be, what they think they deserve, what they were promised -- the amount of rage associated with that is kind of frightening, to be honest. I love the passion for the game, but it's gotten kind of crazy. The fact that it's not just, like, "Man, I really hated that game, I think it sucked!" It's gone past that point: "That guy who made that game, or that team that made the game, they're evil!"
Craig: We still do what we do and we love it, and sometimes all you need to do is go into the game anonymously and play with players, and it's like, yeah. This is what we do, and this is why we do it.
Massively: What is the best part of being a game developer?
Bill: The Money Pants.
Craig: The Tricorder Money Hats. [Laughs]
Bill: For me, the best part is that you can have an idea or vision and have an opportunity to realize it. We are in a really rare position where we can actually do that! I can have an idea that I think is really cool, and as long as it makes the vetting process that it's not insane, it's like, cool! Let's try that, let's put that in. I've played games forever, and the fact I get to make them? That's crazy!
Craig: That is probably the overwhelming thing. We're in this industry because this is what we're doing when we're not working -- we're playing games. Secondary for me is that in this industry, in this work, where your technical challenges in a MMO far outstrip challenges in pure tech. Everything you have to do to support that number of people, the machines to keep things running, the creative side of things -- working with designers, artists, getting that vision out there. And then working with the community to kind of build this one huge thing, and mold this thing. That ends up having a life of its own -- that's why I do it.
Massively: Thanks so much guys!
Bill: It was our pleasure!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Greeen said on 5:42PM 3-11-2010
Interesting thoughts and comments.
Reminds me of the pharmaceutical business - most researchers are there with a passion and do their best to make a difference; it also costs a fortune and 10-15 years to get something to the market and usually the main perception is that all are crooks that are just in it to make money.
Well, it's the company is such, a result of the stock-market very often. they have to make money to keep stock-owners happy, but also to finance the research.
Society is weird. And all of us are a part of it....
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Neurotic said on 5:47PM 3-11-2010
Nice, nice interview. Interesting to hear how they feel about all the hate.
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devilsei said on 5:47PM 3-11-2010
"I think the thing that disappoints me is this perception that we sit around and purposefully try to come up with something to screw our players."
Does it disappoint him because everyone doesn't know it, so its just a "perception"?
Cause he could of fooled me, the cryptic store is a great example of nickel-and-diming double-dips, the idea of trying to force players to pay for much needed end-game content really pushes it, and well... I'm sure there's other things as well.
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Cameron said on 6:06PM 3-11-2010
No surprise they marginalize the people that are unhappy with their service, designs and overall game deployment. Maybe they should listen to those who played and left HGL and CO before they rolled out STO.
Roper also goes onto the we are just guys who love to write games line. If that were the main reason, they would deliver better games. He is a guy who worked on really good games at Blizzard and never translated that success again. My guess is he was not the talent that made Blizzard successful.
CO and STO aren't completely his fault as he walked in on those games, but he is quickly becoming the M Knight of Video Games.
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x(wai)x said on 11:54PM 3-11-2010
Just to point out, Roper didn't touch STO.
xslipperyx said on 6:07PM 3-11-2010
Screw Cryptic. If they actually listened to feedback they could avoid a lot of problems in the first place. They do things without actually learning what people want. They go ahead and do something and then wait till people scream loud enough about what they didn't want in the first place. They are horrible and they make horrible products.
Any company who fails to research the market and trends deserves their fate of low subs and a slow death due to lack of content.
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Zanzabar said on 6:08PM 3-11-2010
"I think the thing that disappoints me is this perception that we sit around and purposefully try to come up with something to screw our players."
The thing that disappoints me is Bill Roper downplays his role in every one of these scenarios, and tries to reinforce the fact that he's "a gamer." Which, im pretty sure by now, is an insult, and a slap in the face to any REAL gamer on the face of the planet.
Gamers simply dont nickel and dime each other like the above posters said. They also don't do such questionable tactics as make people pay for lifetime subscriptions BEFORE THEY CAN EVEN SEE THE GAME?
Also, lets not mention the fact that CO and STO retail boxes are going for HALF PRICE not even 2-3 months after release.
How can Roper actually sit there and try to justify himself?
This guy seriously pisses me off every time he opens his mouth.
PS Bill: Hellgate Tokyo is coming out, and I bet that's still better than STO or CO.
Lololol @ you.
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interitus said on 6:23PM 3-11-2010
"A lot of people who post are like, "I'm going to be totally vocal and outrageous!" Instead of going "I wish you guys would do that"
F*CK YOU! I was in closed beta for STO. Every single one of my suggestions was polite and offered various ways you could try and improve already exsisting mechanics. People in closed beta were beyond polite and still got ignored. Everyone recognized there was serious issues with the game and were suggesting everything under the sun to get the game in decent shape. Everyone in CB wanted the game to do well. But Cryptic did nothing to enhance the game, they fixed bugs but never responded to adding content and making the game engaging. The only thing you gave us was updating the sector map from terrible to lousy.
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Ian said on 7:15PM 3-11-2010
Why do you think he was talking about you when he said "A lot of people who post", not "Every single person who posted"...?
interitus said on 8:52PM 3-11-2010
Read my post, I said the entire beta community was polite. And it angers me because he is suggesting that the frustration from the community is only hindering the games development. Back in CB we were polite, we were patient. We thought we would get the changes we were hoping for and those never showed.
He talks like the CB community treated them like trash when we treated them with the utmost respect. And all that respect got nothing fixed. And so people lash out, and they wonder why. Maybe if we had seen results in CB from polite and positive feedback there would be more of that today.
x(wai)x said on 11:59PM 3-11-2010
"He talks like the CB community treated them like trash "
Where does he refer to the CB community specifically?
He's referring to the community as a whole. And be honest, whether you like how he said it or not he's not wrong.
Direphoenix said on 2:48PM 3-12-2010
I don't know, I was in the closed beta for STO too, and the CB forums were no less explosively neurotic as they are now in my eyes.
Krome said on 6:27PM 3-11-2010
Completely hypocritical bullshit from these so-called 'gamers'.
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dudemanjac said on 7:39PM 3-11-2010
What makes it hypocritical?
Krome said on 8:28PM 3-11-2010
Mr Angry said on 7:22PM 3-11-2010
I agree, these guys do sound a bit smug, and I can only reiterate the point above regarding the feedback offered during STO closed beta. Cryptic went ahead and disregarded a lot of that, now they are not happy with the feedback they are getting, wonder why?
^ This
xslipperyx said on 6:07PM 3-11-2010
Screw Cryptic. If they actually listened to feedback they could avoid a lot of problems in the first place. They do things without actually learning what people want. They go ahead and do something and then wait till people scream loud enough about what they didn't want in the first place.
^ And this
mumu said on 6:43PM 3-11-2010
Maybe they should have taken notice instead being smartasses about it.
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Joiry said on 6:50PM 3-11-2010
"We're just trying to make the best game we can make."
I actually believe this. What we see is, in fact, the best game they can make. And said game is only so-so good in some areas, and lacking in a lot of areas.
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Tom said on 7:10PM 3-11-2010
Interesting read. Unfortunately, they kind of sounded (to me, anyway) like they didn't care a whole lot about what their critics had to say, which doesn't bode well for the future of STO, in my opinion -- unless something changes.
I am still on the fence about trying STO; the interview here just made me want to keep waiting a little longer.
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Mr Angry said on 7:22PM 3-11-2010
Talking of throwing people under a bus, isn't that what Cryptic did to the CO community manager for outlining the costs associated with the forthcoming xpac?
I agree, these guys do sound a bit smug, and I can only reiterate the point above regarding the feedback offered during STO closed beta. Cryptic went ahead and disregarded a lot of that, now they are not happy with the feedback they are getting, wonder why?
I don't think any of this is malicious, I just thing Cryptic are really good at making poor games. I don't think Cryptic exerting pressure on Massively to publish 'personal commentary' on individuals is going to change much, people are commenting on the games they produce and what they get as customers, and from Cryptic, that could be a whole lot better.
This whole MMO celebrity has backfired on nearly every occasion, Smed, McQuaid, Garriot, the tools who did Warhammer, the liar from Funcom, etc etc.
So Cryptic, listen to the fans you have left, promote their ideas and stop with the egotistical interviews. Once you fix your games and polish them up, then come back for the back slapping and high fiving.
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Kdolo said on 7:33PM 3-11-2010
"A lot of commenters on this site are very harsh on Cryptic. What are some of the things you wish people could see that you guys are doing in your studio that would make people change their minds about Cryptic?"
Wow, what a hard-nosed question. Why not just ask them how we are wrong for thinking that? I mean, is it any wonder that when they say something like this:
If a game comes out and it's not what the
players believed it was going to be, what
they think they deserve, what they were
promised -- the amount of rage associated
with that is kind of frightening, to be honest.
...we think they're complete retards? Of COURSE there's going to be fallout when you promise a game that you don't deliver and force people to decide on lifetime subscriptions. It's called "bait and switch" and it's illegal to do in a store.
Most games or companies don't inspire this much rancor. I think NCSoft is the closest, or maybe some F2P company, I don't know. Even Blizzard, as much as people hate it, most hate it because they played WoW for 3 years and it sucks now, or it ruined WAR or AoC or whatever.
At any rate, thanks for yet another article that exposes us as the tyrannic slavering hordes who just don't understand Cryptic, despite their consistently poor performance and behavior.
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